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Ep. 76- Weaning: History, Psychology, and Practical Tips

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This is Maureen Farrell and Heather O’Neal and this is The Milk Minute. We’re midwives and lactation professionals bringing you the most up-to-date evidence for all things lactation. So you can feel more confident about feeding your baby, body positivity, relationships, and mental health. Plus, we laugh a little or a lot along the way.

So join us for another episode. Hello, is it me you’re looking for? And welcome back to the Milk Minute Podcast. Try not to let me serenade you into a stupor. I mean, I don’t know. You could serenade me while I pump, Heather. Okay. We’ll see if it produces more output. I’m going to do a controlled study with a sample size of one.

I’m going to sing nothing but Celine Dion for 15 minutes each time. Yeah, but no, really like this pumping, it’s a lot. Did I tell you? Not to not talk about your pumping because obviously that’s important on this breastfeeding podcast, but on a whole other subject that has nothing to do with breastfeeding. Let’s hear it. I have tickets to see Celine in November.

Stop! Really? I really do. You think it’s going to happen?

Don’t bring me that energy! We just got a message that one of the counties in West Virginia has gone remote. It wasn’t my county, but it’s right next to your county. Probably in three days you’ll get the message. So my butthole is puckering thinking about that and I’m just going to keep on homeschooling forever. And I’m just good for you.

I’m just going to keep thinking about seeing Celine Dion in November and I get to see John Mayer in February, because one of my best friends, Abigail, who I’ve been friends with for 25 years, bought us the tickets as a 25 year friendship anniversary. That’s really sweet. It’s so nice. I do have a few friends that have known for that long, but like, I don’t know that they’d be buying me concert tickets.

No, like literally we have known each other since second grade basketball and she was a beast by the way. Very good center. But, yeah so we saw John Mayer together four times in our lives, over the course of our friendship. And so this was just perfect because you know, he’s aged like a fine wine, even though he’s got a touch of an asshole quality, you know, what are you going to do?

So I might even wear the same outfit I wore at the last one, which was like early two thousands. And I remember we worked on this outfit all day long and what we came up with was ridiculous. I was wearing baggy overalls with a tank top underneath and my hair in one of those handkerchief things. And I literally thought in my mind, like, he’s going to notice me and he’s going to be like, look how chill low key she is.

It sounds comfortable though. So you may as well just wear it. I know I have to buy some overalls for this long torso. Put some sweat pants on girl. I know. Who cares? Whatever. At this point I’m like, t-shirt leggings. We’re good. If I hold up one of those signs, it’s like, John, this is our fifth time seeing you in 25 years.

It might actually just make him depressed because it’ll just be reminded. You have the same fans!. And you’re old. Your fans are now this old and she’s holding a sign that says you still got it anyway. May not have the desired effect, Heather. All right, enough about my love John Mayer and more about weaning. Cause that’s what we’re doing here today.

As I started researching this, it was going to be like a tactical episode. And what it turned into is not that. Oh dear wait, so you were going to be like, here are the directions. Here’s how you do it. Now what, what are we going to do instead? Well, what I came upon with weaning was the reasons why people choose to do it, the cultural implications about it, how the milk actually physically changes as you go along and you know, all the different things that play into the choice to ween.

Okay. So instead of weaning for dummies, we’re doing like the cultural historical context and like some of the signs. Yes. And then we’re going to finish with some tactical tips about weaning. I like this, but first let’s do a listener question. So this question is from Sarah Wilson. She’s one of our Scottish friends who found us on Instagram and she asked me a very good question.

So Sarah says, hi, I just wanted to let you know how much I’ve appreciated your podcast. I’ve been listening to over the last month and really wish I had found it 10 months ago at the start of my journey with my son. I wouldn’t have had to question my gut and been able to tell certain people to F off.

Oh yeah. Then she says, I do have a question. I was wondering if you could help me with my new Lyme’s diagnosis. I haven’t actually seen a doctor. It was over the phone from my description. Yeah. COVID in NHS at the moment. We feel that girl, we feel it. She says that she’s been given three weeks of amoxicillin rather than the normal prescription for lymes because she’s breastfeeding.

So the normal script is doxycycline, which if you didn’t know, while you’re breastfeeding can give your baby bluish green teeth. Which is a very strange side effect. So that’s pretty much the main reason we don’t do it. But her question is, do I need to support baby’s digestion and gut while on antibiotics. She looked at Evivo but it doesn’t ship to the UK.

She says, by the time the NHS could give support on it, the antibiotics will be over. That’s sad. So of course I wanted to help. So I told her after reaching out to a functional medicine doctor, Doctor Onishi, by the way, if you guys are in North Central West Virginia or PA, feel free to stop over at Blackwater Osteopathic, he’s the bomb.

He actually said that Lyme in the UK is a little bit different than here. So the recommendations can vary with antibiotics, but the amoxicillin should work. He does say you could do a higher dose. So you could do a thousand milligrams TID and the probiotics he would recommend are theralac pro and Saccharomycin once a day.

So that is very helpful. And she did say that she was able to find the Theralac Pro in Scotland, which is great. So hoping that that all checks out and the baby’s gut is able to be supported throughout this. And if anybody is, you know, recently diagnosed with Lyme, there’s a lot of great resources out there and we’ll put some of them in the show notes for this episode.

That’s a really, really tough thing to navigate, especially while breastfeeding. Always be on the lookout for thrush with extended antibiotic use. And don’t let it go. Like you have to treat it immediately. Okay. So anyone out there struggling with Lyme, send Sarah some love and let’s get into weening.

All right.

Maureen, did you know that any time I’ve ever tried a lube in my life, my vagina reacts like it’s mad at me? Yeah. You have mentioned that to me before. Yeah. I had, I used to call it AVD angry vaginas disorder, but the good news is I actually found a product that I really love. And this is serious. I’m not joking.

This is not just something that I am saying to say on an ad. I love UberLube. It’s a natural product that does not have any like artificial, anything in it. And it works with your body and it actually lasts a pretty long time if you know what I mean. Yes, I do know what you mean, and I know that our listeners need lube kind of more than anything in the postpartum.

Like breastfeeding’s a dry time guys, and it’s not your fault. That’s kind of a normal side effect of breastfeeding, but it doesn’t mean your relationship has to suffer. No. Or even your relationship with yourself. Yeah. So get yourself some Uber lube by clicking the link in the show notes, or you can go to and enter the promo code MILK MINUTE. Happy lubing and everyone.

 Weaning, weaning, weaning. Keep the baby weaning. Well, I don’t know. Okay. So first of all, shout out to Dr. Ruth Lawrence and Dr. Robert Lawrence for their book, Breastfeeding, a Guide for the Medical Profession, Eighth Edition. I started to do all the research on my own, and then I found this chapter in the book and I was like, oh, well, Ruth already did it.

So thank you. Thank you. Thanks Ruth. So it was just the most beautiful conglomeration of all the most important research. And I was really thankful for her work. So what is weaning really? So everyone always puts this huge pressure on weaning. You know, like when are you going to wean? Like you better not still be breastfeeding when your baby can ask for it.

Exactly. So it’s like this weird little goal and people talk about it like a light at the end of the tunnel. Like you’re going to get there someday, but guess what? What weaning actually is, is when you start solid foods. Yep. So bad news guys. You’ve already started solid foods. You’ve already begun weaning.

This is why some of the methods that we call, what we talk about, we call them baby led weaning. Yeah. That’s starting solids. Yeah. So in the animal kingdom and Maureen can probably speak to this better than I can because she’s like Snow White in the forest and all the animals run towards her. I just had to wean some lambs, girl, we’ll talk about it.

Oh God. So in the animal kingdom, weaning begins when the babies start foraging for food on their own, and it’s just a natural progression. And what the actual definition of weaning is, is when the baby is no longer solely reliant on the mother’s milk for nutrition. So take that imaginary goal of someday out of your mind, and just start thinking about this as a natural progression that you might already be on and it’s completely fine.

So no paranoia, you don’t have to set any unrealistic goals for yourself or even decide, right now. And it’s going to happen without your plan also. Right? Exactly. So let’s talk about the major organizations of course, we always have to talk about what they recommend. And universally all of the major professional organizations that have anything to do with babies or breastfeeding recommend exclusive breastfeeding until at least six months of age.

But that doesn’t mean, here’s my stipulation, that we should be setting the bar low for people as lactation consultants and providers. This does not mean that we tell people let’s just get you to six months because those arbitrary numbers of six months, and then one year are really kind of sticky wickets for people in their mind like, oh, I made it to six months.

So it’s okay now, like I don’t have to do it anymore. Or like they just get it in their mind that if they get to six months, what am I trying to say? I mean, what, what kills me about it is we have our breastfeeding goal and then there’s no plan for when we meet it. Right. So there’s a lot of like, okay, six months is my goal.

And then we get there and parents are like, wait, what? Right? Like, it kind of just drops off. So, you know, this is where we kind of come in and where we’ve kind of found our niche is that community support from six months to a year. So it’s like, if you put all this pressure on just making it to six months, and then everyone kind of forgets about you after that, it’s like, okay, great.

You made it to six months. So like, whatever happens from now, you’re already a winner. Right. And that really doesn’t sound supportive to me. Yeah. And it doesn’t like, it doesn’t show people that you are, that you believe that they can do it or that it’s not normalizing one year. It’s normalizing six months.

Right. And I think really what we need to be doing then is saying, Hey, you know, it would be great if you could breastfeed for as long as you want to. And, you know, let’s, let’s talk about what those different stages look like and we’ll problem solve in those different stages. And also, you know, it’s okay to change our plan at different times.

And then, so another arbitrary number is the one year. So you make it to one year. And then after that, I would say, support completely goes out the window. Any one thing goes on, that’s wrong and they’re like, well, they’re already one, you can just wean. And you’re like, what? Yeah. So, or like you’re at work and that’s when people start giving you the side eye, like you’re still pumping.

It’s been a year. I mean, like literally every day in the Facebook group, there’s someone who’s like, well, we’re just about 12 months. I guess I’ll start weaning now. And every time I like, I don’t want to make someone second guess a decision that they’ve made that is good for them, but I do want to step in and say, okay, yes, congratulations.

You’ve made it to one year. Do you want to wean? Right. It’s not a requirement. So let’s talk about the benefits of nursing beyond one year. For those people that are listening, who are like, oh, I’m 11 months, you know, like, I don’t know what I’m going to do. Well, maybe nothing. And if anyone says anything to you, you can be like, listen, here’s the benefits.

There are still nutritious benefits. Okay. This is almost like when you’re recommending breastfeeding and you’re like, yeah, breast milk is amazing and it’s way better than a chocolate chip cookie out of a package. You know, it’s like when you tell people to switch from Mountain Dew to water, it’s not that water is like that.

It’s not that water has everything in it that you could ever need, but it does mean that you’re drinking less Mountain Dew, which is great. Right, right. And really, you know, we see all of these doctors and parents being like, okay, now it’s time for your kid to have two glasses of cow’s milk. Guess what’s better than cow’s milk? Your milk.

Like human milk. Yeah. So that’s, you can, you can do two glasses of human milk. Yeah. And same with the other benefit, digestion. So it’s very easy on the stomach and it does not impede digestion in any way. And sometimes when you have a baby that’s a little bit older, that starts solids, the poop does tend to be a little bit more constipating sometimes and breast milk is 80% water, and that’s only going to help move things along and make it softer as they’re passing stool.

So it’s very good for digestion and it has trophic agents that extend in fertility and reduce infectious disease for baby. So you’re still passing immune properties because there’s this big thing out there that’s like, “there’s no more immune properties that benefit your baby after six months of age.”

Yeah, no. No, the first six months is when they get the most, but it doesn’t mean that stops. Okay. So we can rely on passive immunity to a point as far as like vaccination schedules, you know, and that kind of deal. But we can’t say that there are no immunologic properties in breast milk after six months.

Definitely after a year. It’s the same. Another benefit is that breastfed babies get a wider breadth of taste experiences. So if at one year, you know, you cut them off from breastfeeding, or maybe sooner than that, you cut them off from breastfeeding and you give them formula if they’re not yet a year, formula tastes the same every single time.

It’s the same. They’re not experiencing different tastes in the world around them if they’re constantly getting formula. Yeah, no, I’m not saying like, oh, if you formula feed, your baby is going to be picky or guess what? They’re all probably going to be a picky eater at some point. But that doesn’t mean it’s not benefiting baby to give them a wider variety of tastes when you get can. Exactly.

And there’s also comfort nursing and emotional support of breastfeeding after one year of age, which is awesome. And here’s a fun fact for you, which you’re going to be like, what? I love fun facts, hit me. So primates in the wild do not suck their thumbs, but if you put a primate in captivity and bottle feed them, they will suck their thumbs.

That makes me sad. I know. That does I, I was unprepared for the emotion that fun fact was gonna. It’s a sad fact. Yeah. That’s not a fun fact, Heather. That’s a sad fact. Yeah. And I’m not saying that if your child sucks their thumb, like mine, that they’re emotionally unstable, but you know, my daughter weaned at 10 months and she is a hardcore thumb sucker, and she always has been, but like I did introduce a bottle kind of early.

I mean, I didn’t know what I know now at the time. I know a lot more, but still, I kind of wonder. I’m like, would we have this thumb sucking issue if we had just been exclusively breastfeeding? I don’t know. And it might be easier to study that in primates because it’s easier to control. I mean, cause you’re like allowed to lock baby monkeys in a cage.

Right. And like, for the most part, unless you’re the U S government, you’re not allowed to lock children in cages. So, oh, she did it. She did it. There are also benefits to solid food. So I wanted to touch on this because I don’t want you thinking that I’m saying don’t give your kids solid food. That’s not what I’m saying.

I’m saying definitely, if your kid is ready for solid food, do both. Do it. Yeah. So benefits to solid food are that, and this is debated, but typically quote, unquote, babies are ready to begin solids at six months of age and the professional organizations kind of all have a little bit of a different take on this, but six months is a pretty solid number that you can rely on.

That’s like you can start thinking about doing some kind of solid food. And it’s like the simple guideline. Simple. So it’s important for babies to start solid foods because they need to learn how to chew. They really don’t know how to chew and they have to learn how to do this. There’s a lot of really funny babies on Tik TOK that are learning how to chew.

And like, I bet. The lips like the up and down chomping and they have no teeth and it’s like the cutest thing I’ve ever seen. Yeah. It’s just falling out. But it’s really good for their mouth motor development because eventually like the fat deposits on the face change, you know, your breastfed baby has those chubby chubby breastfeeding cheeks.

I realized while we were recording today, when I put my headphones on and it just kind of gently pushes my cheeks forward. I’m like, oh, I do look like my baby. Oh my God. She kind of is turning into your mini me. Yeah. The fat redistributes and the muscles for chewing get stronger and it changes the shape of the mouth over time, which is very important because we do see with NICU babies that do a lot of tube feeds or all tube feeds that prolonged sucking without solids does lead to poor eating and oral aversions and stuff like that.

And we don’t want that. So that’s a good thing. It’s appropriate to introduce them to solids at the appropriate time. And then there’s also the social achievements of eating solid food. Like being able to sit at a table, share a meal with family, participate as an active you know, communicating number of the family.

This isn’t a sad thing. You know, a lot of people get, get, feels, feel sentimental and sad when around six months they introduce their baby to their first, you know, avocado, whatever, banana, sweet potato. You know, but it’s, it’s not, I mean, I get how it’s sentimental, but this is an exciting thing. This is a way that baby is growing to integrate further into the family.

Yeah. And that’s what they’re meant to do. So if your baby is there a lot of people have questions about what do I do with my breast milk? And we can talk about that later. Okay. So here’s the fun part. Okay. Apparently parents have been asking for guidance on this for a long time. Would you like to know how long? We, so we actually have evidence from 536 BC from the Talmud with ancient Hebrew tradition recommending breastfeeding for at least three years.

I love that. Yeah. I mean, people didn’t go to school back then, you know, religion ruled everything. So religion actually does kind of step in and give guidelines for just how to live your life and how to do stuff and not die. And unless that shows up, that’s like an evidence-based guideline. I’m just, that’s a good one.

So if you’re looking for the oldest weaning guideline on earth, it’s this. And I, you know what, I wonder if there’s something about it in like the Ebbers Papyrus or whatever from like 5,000 BC or something? No, I did not find that, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s interesting though. And I think the thing is like, we talk about evidence a lot on the podcast.

That is a form of evidence, right? Yes. It’s anecdotal, but also we’ve been, then we know that we’ve been nursing toddlers for what, what year was that? 536 BC. Yeah. So that’s 2,500 years at least. Right. So there’s like, okay. Yes. It’s not the most scientific, but like there’s a longevity to that. That proves something in itself.

Yeah. And think about how important they must’ve thought that was to put that in the Talmud. You know, for health and wellness of both parties. You know, the same thing with the bris and circumcisions on day eight, a lot of people are like, oh, why, why would they wait until eight days of life? And it’s like because the Jewish, ancient Jewish people found out that if you do a circumcision prior to that, they believe, babies hemorrhage. Your babies hemorrhage out of their penises because they didn’t have a vitamin K shot and babies don’t have clotting factors until they start digesting the breast milk.

And so they did enough circs until they figured day eight was like a pretty good way to go put it in the Bible. Yeah. I mean, there, when you start to pick apart a lot of ancient religious traditions, it’s really interesting. I attended a birth with a Greek Orthodox family and they don’t name their baby until a certain day.

And on that day, like their religious, I don’t know, a leader. I don’t know if they call it a priest or whatever, he would come and name them. And I was like, oh yeah, we have the traditions cause like a lot of babies died a couple of days after they were born. And then this is like, okay, at this point, most babies are surviving.

So we’re going to name this baby. It’s like there it’s, it’s fascinating to look through that sometimes. That’s how I put it in here. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. That was like, I feel like that was just for me. But I’m not done. Oh good. So the Muslims, especially in Africa and Sudan follow the Qur’an which says that they recommend breastfeeding until at least two with many feeding until four or five.

So not only did they give a recommendation, but there’s a range. Thank you, Qur’an thank you, Qur’an. I think I’m sorry about my West Virginia-ness, but then we have a good old Aristotle. Oh, yes, let’s hear it. What does he have to say? Aristotle recommended that women should breastfeed while no menstruation was occurring, because bro did not realize that one affects the other. He’s was onto something.

Okay. So he was like, there’s a relationship here. Not sure what it is. Yeah. Come out to the wrong backwards conclusion. I imagine he was like scribbling that in his notebook and he was just like, Ugh, I can’t find the resolution on that. Meanwhile, Maureen and I have the same experience trying to find the breastfeeding research.

He’s like, oh, if I just found another scroll. One more scroll, come on researchers. We can also look at primates. So we’ve had some scientists try to look at primates and give recommendations for humans based on what they’ve observed in the wild. So one scientist who’s very famous for studying this is Detwiler. I hope I’m saying that, right.

I mean, that’s a good guess Detwiler. So. Detwiler attempted a mathematical formula for weaning. Okay. Okay, sure. I’m ready. Hit me with it. I like math. So the formula is you take the ratio of the present weight to the birth weight. And when that ratio is four to one, which is typically between the ages of two and three, they’re ready to wean.

Then there’s also, if you look at primates, the eruption of the first molar, which would be five and a half to six years in humans, right? So when you look at all of that, the details don’t matter. What stands out is that pretty much, no matter which way you look at it, somewhere between two and six, it sounds good to me, is a good time to think about weaning or, or that the infant would be ready to wean.

There’s also, we can look at the immunological profile. And if you were looking at that on its own, six years old in humans is considered immune competence. Yep. So no longer relying on a parent for breast milk with IGA. Okay. Would you like to hear some bad advice from white dudes? Oh, I’m always excited to hear that.

Heather just take it and listen, and just probably like put it right in that trash can. I think we should just have a bad advice from white dudes section in every single episode. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like though, if we did that, I would want it like on a piece of paper and then we’re just going to like crumble it up and just chuck it.

Okay. So JR Sackett in 1953 recommended introducing solids on the second day of life. I just, can I do that again now? You’re just gonna take that. We’re doing this with it and then just a goodbye. Oh, I’m not done. So Dr., I ran out of paper, pick it up. Dr. Bartholomew Menninger in 1473, recommended withholding all solid food until the baby had sufficient teeth to chew thoroughly. Wow, total other end of the bad advice spectrum.

Yeah. Right. Why? Like that would be like, what, like three, I mean like kids, two? When the kids grow enough, teeth are sufficient. How hard is it to grow teeth if you’re not eating solids? So, I don’t know. So I don’t know how that worked out, but I can’t imagine that was the best recommendation. We also have Jacoby also known as the father of modern pediatrics, who advised no solid foods for a year and no vegetables before two years of age. I will say like, historically we do see that the introduction of solids for a long time was closer to a year.

Probably fine, you know, but yeah, like no vegetables? No vegetables, Jacoby. Why? I mean, he didn’t eat broccoli. People had a really weird view about vegetables though. Like for a long time, especially in this like, you know, Western culture, they were like, oh yeah, like poor people eat onions, you know, like rich people eat meat.

Oh. And that’s why everyone had like scurvy and shit. Yeah. Though kings did gout. Everybody had gout who was rich because they only ate meat and they had like this crystals and their joints. So the good old days. Huh? So how do you know if your ready? Because the point of all of this is to say since the beginning of time recommendations have varied, but how do you know if you are ready and how do you know if your baby is ready? So let’s pop back to the United States in particular and touch on the things that you’re dealing with and talk some averages of weaning and the reasons behind weaning so you can kind of see where you fit in.

So premature weaning is considered under a year of age. So weaning, in general is over a year. Okay. So anytime I say premature weaning, it means we’re talking about less than one year old’s. Okay. Okay, cool listening. So studies show us that one third of parents weaned prematurely, because they thought their milk was quote unquote, not enough, inadequate or weak. As if we didn’t already know that.

But if you’re driving your car right now, listening to this, and you just had a moment this morning where you thought your breast milk was inadequate, and then maybe you should wean. Yeah, listen on. Don’t quit on your worst day. Don’t quit on your worst day. You are enough. Your milk is enough. The primary cause of a failing milk supply by the way is not, you. It is actually reported that the cause of this is from inadequate help and instruction about milk production from medical personnel.

Yep. That’s an our bad. Not a, your bad. Okay. So if you are feeling that way, reach out and get someone different to champion you through the rest of your breastfeeding journey. All right. Thank you. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. Okay. So let’s talk about some top reasons for premature weaning I’m going to list them and then we’re going to break them down and we’re going to discuss, okay.

I like it. I’ll try not to interrupt too much. Oh no, please do. Oh, okay. Okay. So number one reason for premature weaning was that parents felt the baby was old enough to wean. Okay. We also have infant not satisfied, concern regarding nutritional issues, physical and medical problems, job or schedule, time and effort associated with pumping, and preference to bottle feed.

All right. Yeah. I have run into all of those. So let’s talk about being old enough. What does that mean? Being old enough? I don’t know. This is a cultural thing. Yeah. Oh yeah. I guess that would vary by. Yeah, it is. This is a cultural thing. This is how much pressure are you getting from the outside, right?

Has your mother-in-law told you your three month old is old enough to wean? Right. Probably, probably, yeah. As, as they’re jamming, like ice cream into their mouth probably. And, you know, we can really see this play out in the fact that boys tend to be weaned earlier than girls. So think about that for a second and why that might be and how gender bias plays a role and gender identity.

And boys like sucking on their mom’s boob for too long is creepy and gross. So they tend to be weaned much earlier than girls. Wow. Which is fascinating. Don’t let other people put that on you. I know. So if you’ve heard that one, I’m calling bullshit. So also boys, just as an aside, do have a higher energy intake.

So their energy intake requirement is a little bit higher, but this is most likely due from psychosocial stuff that people wean them earlier. And then we need to also talk about self weaning. So this is what people say, oh my baby self weaned. I said that with my two kids who weaned at 10 months, both of them at 10 months, I don’t know why.

Very strange. Seems fishy, Heather, it does seem fishy. So you know, when people say, oh, she’s old enough because you know, she’s self weaning anyway, so it’s fine. So let’s break that down. This should actually be called infant led weaning. And this means that baby is acting like they’re ready to wean prior than a year of age.

And this can be confusing and sometimes heartbreaking for people. And sometimes they’re like, Fuck it, you know, which is kinda how I was, to be honest. But I mean, yeah, but you’re also like working and pumping and I feel like once you start doing that, like this whole situation changes, it does, it really does.

And so whatever you decide is fine, but I just want you to know while you’re listening to this. It’s okay to be like, oh, that’s me. And not like, oh, that’s me. So their behavior tends to change. So what it looks like when infant led weaning happens prior to one year of age, is that they have an increased interest in exploring their environment, popping on and off, huge interest in other solid foods and decreased interest in breastfeeding.

This typically only lasts about a month or less. So you have to decide. If you go with it, because this requires the mom or breastfeeding parent being complicit. You know, they have to be complicit in the process of weaning during this time. And if you are in about a month, you should be done. You know, the gradual weaning process can be done, but if you’re not ready, you can be persistent.

You can troubleshoot, you can work with an IB CLC to get you to the one-year mark. This is where a lot of my clients come in. I actually have a lot of clients. Really nine months. I see a lot. And I remember it too, nine months. I was like, wow, this kid’s busy. We’re hardly breastfeeding at all. That didn’t last very long. And it’s not considered abnormal by the way for this to happen.

So, but it is kind of that window of time where you can be like, Hmm, what do I want to do? Because if you’re persistent and you push through that month and you can make it to the one-year mark at that point. After that, kids don’t typically self wean, they don’t typically infant lead it until they’re four.

Yeah, I hear that. So you’re not going to see a two year old do this. The two year old’s just going to get that boob whenever they want to. And then when they’re four, they’re like, I’ve decided I got my first boyfriend in pre-K and I’m done breastfeeding. I mean, for, for the most part, they’re usually like, okay, I kind of forgot about it for a week.

Right? Exactly. Exactly. So you can decide. And I just wanted to talk about that because that’s part of being quote unquote old enough. Okay. So infant not satisfied. Let’s discuss. This is I feel like this is possibly my number two complaint. I see after people feeling like they’re not making enough milk, but these are, these are connected, right?

These are connected. My baby’s not satisfied. They want to keep feeding. They’re still hungry. I give them a bottle with four ounces and they’re fine. And they just cry. Right. And then I fed them formula. They’re fine. And you’re like, shit. So the average age of introduction of formula is 11.8 weeks. Ooh. Okay. That’s younger than I thought.

Yeah. Okay. In the U S we’re still talking. Yes. So in a study with 1,134 mothers, 55% reported that their pediatrician suggested formula and 46.4% were told that solids would help their babies sleep. Solids? For like a two month old? What? No. Separate things. Oh, okay. I thought you were talking about the 11 weeks and I was like, wait, are we real?

Introducing formula is 11.8 weeks. Okay. But then like separate study when you’re looking at 1,134 mothers, 55% reported that their pediatrician suggested the formula. Okay. So of those averages. So obviously pediatricians are recommending it a lot for babies that are young and then 46.4% were told that solids would help their baby sleep at some point by a pediatrician.

So like not, yeah, you can’t see it guys, but I’m making a face. If you join our Patreon you can see the face I make. Yeah. So infant not satisfied. Let me just briefly tell you breast milk is digested completely in 90 minutes. Like, it’s not difficult to digest so it tends to run through quick. So if you feed your baby and 30 minutes later, they want more, put a boob in their mouth.

It’s fine. Just give them more. Formula takes a lot longer to digest and people tend to feed it more on a schedule and it’s a whole different ball game. So of course that’s an, and they’re not regulating a bottle. You know, they’re getting the amount that’s like suggested for their weight and age, but with breastfeeding, they’re having a conversation with your body.

They have to continually tell your body how much it needs and, and when, and you know, all of that. So just keep putting a boob in their mouth, call an IB CLC. If you feel like your infant isn’t satisfied. Yeah. And track those poops and pees if you have concerns. Yes. And also check out our other episodes where we talk about supply.

Okay. Thanks. Nutritional issues. This is really cool. Get ready. I’m excited. Okay. So when parents gradually ween and begin slowly dropping feeds, there’s amazing things that happened in the middle. Okay. Tell me, tell me. The amount of protein, sodium and iron increase as your volume decreases. Okay. So the, also the total amount of fat does not change, but does account for an increase in the percentage of calories, which is about 80%. Interesting.

So this is where, so like sugar becomes less calorically important in breast milk. So the lactose decreases. Lactose and zinc decrease. Cool. I like it. So we’re talking about like butter, not whipped cream. Yes. So this is why when you have a seven month old, that eats quickly and not as often, they’re still fine.

Yeah. Okay. So it’s the difference between a newborn eating chicken broth all day long and a seven month old having two servings of chicken pot pie. Different. I love to start off the wall analogies. I hope you follow them folks. Anyways, chicken pot pies. So most of the immunologic components stay the same except IGA and secretory IGA rise. Cool. Slightly. I like it. Thanks. So what does this mean?

Basically this means your body’s a fricking genius. And if your baby is only nursing twice a day, so say you’ve got a 14 month old who nurses in the morning and at night, your body is packing the calories in and giving them one giant vitamin of immunologic component.

And like sugar, you know, lactose is great. It gives you quick energy, but it’s not long lasting. And it’s really important for brain development in that first six months of life. But after that, now we’re growing, and our brains aren’t doubling in size. And like our brains double in size in the first six months of life.

So it eats up that lactose, which feeds your brain and your brain requires so much energy, which brings me to my next point. Oh I’m listening. So the first two months of life the energy requirement of a baby is about 115 kcals per kilogram per day. Okay. 115, just that. Got it 1, 1, 5.

 After two months of age, so from two to six months, it drops drastically to 85 kcals per kilogram, per day. Okay. So 115 to 85, right? And then it, from then from six to 12 months, it increases to about a hundred and stays there. And boys have a slightly higher requirement than girls. Why not? Why not? In general, depending on your kid. So, what this tells us is that first two months where your baby is eating all the frickin time and their brain development is like really working and doubling in size.

We’ve got lots of energy going in, lots of lactose, which helps with quick energy. And then we start to change a little bit as baby gets older. So please trust your breast milk and trust the nutrition in your breast milk. Your body has truly figured this out and knows how old your baby is. It knows. So, yeah.

Yeah. Deal with that. So don’t question yourself. And I do want to add, cause whenever we say that, people get freaked out about using old milk from the freezer. That it’s not nutritionally adequate. It’s great too. It’s not just, okay. It’s great too. It’s nutritionally adequate as far as we know. We would still consider it a choice we would make prior to formula supplementation and just use it.

Don’t be afraid to use that frozen milk, even if it is three months old, six months old. It’s okay. Yeah. And also it’s important to mention when, like, when people want to wean because of nutritional issues, that breastfed babies continually grow on lower volumes of human milk versus formula. So this is why the volume of breast milk does not change over time, but formula volume does.

Yeah, the babies grow the same. Okay. All right. So you are enough, your milk is enough. It’s not weak. It’s not inadequate. You’re amazing. Okay. Physical and medical problems. This is another big one. So first of all, schedule a private consult with us or with somebody else who’s in, who’s a lactation consultant to discuss medication administration.

So if it’s like a medication issue, a lot of times this is not, it’s not an all or nothing situation. Like we can switch to a short acting instead of an extended release, or maybe we can nurse just at night. Like we can figure it out somehow some way, most of the time. And also Maureen’s favorite app and website LactMed.

And I also want to throw out there, if you can’t find the answer on LactMed or on another app or website, call the infant risk center, the number is 1-806-352-2519. Open from 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM central time. Okay. They have professionals whose only job is to talk about medication safety while breastfeeding.

Yeah. And if you’ve had a provider tell you to like pump and dump for six weeks or something, say, I would literally call on speaker phone before you leave that appointment and be like, can we just double check? Yeah. Please get a second opinion before you do something wild like that. Okay.

Now, if you yourself are feeling compromised, like I just can’t do it. I’m physically falling apart for whatever reason. We, we feel you, we were just talking about that at lunch. We were like, well, yeah, this is bad, right? Yeah. Our bodies are just kind of like. Go to the chiropractor. Please go listen to episode 45, where we interviewed Dr. Claire McDaniel from Atlas Chiropractic about how she specifically cares for postpartum parents and gets them to their peak performance as a human body so you can support another body.

It also helps mentally. So she talks a lot about taking fish oil and just getting your hormones sorted out. And if you are literally doing all of those things correctly and you still are feeling bad, that’s something to note. So please go get that checked out by a doctor, get some labs, like maybe it’s hypothyroidism, maybe.

I mean, who the heck knows, but if you are taking care of yourself in all of these ways, and you’re still feeling like poop, like you can’t care for another human, you can’t possibly breastfeed or whatever. Get checked out for autoimmune issues, women have a much higher incidents of them, like, which actually has to do with like pregnancy and the placenta.

And it’s really interesting. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So also as an aside, but still in this realm with physical and medical problems, the research shows us that those who plan to breastfeed prenatally were more likely to continue regardless of issues, physical and medical, than other people. And that lines up with the research that, you know, these, these surveys will tell us that basically the lactating parent’s motivation is essentially the single most important factor in success next to support and education. It’s true. So here’s the fun fact, nipple pain, medical illness, fatigue, and breast infections were typically not associated strongly with a mother’s decision to wean compared to other reasons. Yeah, we can muscle through pain y’all.

Yeah. So like, whatever, I gave birth to this baby, right. If you’re pregnant and you’re already worried about nipple pain, but you were like determined to breastfeed, don’t worry about it. You’ll do it anyway. But you know, but when you suddenly think that you’re not enough, even though you just muscled through nipple pain, thrush and mastitis, just spoiler, you are doing great then. Yeah, exactly. Don’t let your own brain get you down. Apparently we’re our own worst enemy. Gosh, we are. So the job, the job might be the enemy. Job and schedule. So this is another one. I do want to reference our episode 26, where we interviewed a workplace accommodation attorney.

So Juliana Franco is amazing and that’s all about workplace accommodations and how to get your workplace to work for you as a breastfeeding person or pumping person. Also jobs and schedules. Let me just note research shows that rigid feeding schedules were associated with early weening. Womp, womp. So here’s what this means for you.

Maybe during the weeks when you’re working it is a little bit rigid, but on the weekends, allow flexibility. Don’t overbook yourself, really let baby feed on demand to kind of get your body back to where it needs to be to reset and recalibrate for the next week. Because if you keep that rigid schedule all the time, all the time, all the time, eventually it’s just a means to an end.

And it’s exhausting to be in that kind of a prison mentality anyway. And then you’re like, just, I can’t do this anymore. Whereas maybe if we’re a little flexible, we could be like, well, we can, we just, we’re going to do it in the morning and at night. And that’s it. Yeah. And you know, a lot of people, if they drop pumping at work, sometime after six months have a much higher rate of success for that long-term breastfeeding.

But before then, it’s really hard to come back from. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve told to stop pumping at work to make it to a year and beyond. I’m like, you’re good. Just stop. It’s making you crazy. And the minute they stop, they’re like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. I mean, they might not be exclusively breastfeeding, but they’re not anyway because baby’s on solid foods. You’re already in the weaning process. So just let it work for you. Yeah. I will say a small pet peeve of mine is when people say they’re exclusively breastfeeding after they’ve started solids. Yeah. Just like, but you’re not, I get that. You want to say that it’s just breastmilk and not formula, but like it’s no longer E B F so don’t put it in your Facebook post.

Yeah. But I think they probably just don’t know. I know. I just. I was trying to be like, can I make a post about that that doesn’t sound like I’m an asshole? No, no. You sound like a lactation consultants snob through and through. I do. So I’m just not, I just, I’m saying it here and that. You’re in a safe space until everyone cancels you. Until everybody hears this episode.

You’re fine. You’re fine. So then the time and effort associated with pumping. So same thing we were just talking about, but wanted to also mention that in humans, as well as animals, it’s typically the mother that determines the time of weaning, you know, like the sheep that just kind of like kicks the lamb away.

I can tell you about it. They head butt their babies actually, or they just straight up walk the fuck away. Like babies latched and they’re like, we’re just going to start going now and I’m leaving you behind. And by that time, the lambs are so big. They’re like on their knees to get under there. And I just like, my breeding ewes are looking so skinny and awful now, no matter how much I feed them and their babies were still feeding and they’re like four months old.

And I was like, all right, guys, this usually doesn’t happen. But you guys are on that side of the electric fence and your moms are on this side. Cause just the regular fence isn’t enough. So there’s moms right now out there who are trying desperately to wean their three-year-olds. And they’re like, yeah, electric fencing. That’s what I, that’s what I said on the Milk Minute Podcast. That’s our official recommendation.

And also the psychosocial factors are huge in this as well as the perceived problem with scheduling breastfeeding around work and a lack of family support. So all of those things put together with the time and effort associated with pumping is greatly affected by a lack of those things.

So if you don’t have family support and your job doesn’t support it, how are you supposed to pump? Oh, I would have already not been breastfeeding if I worked full time and didn’t have support. You know, neither of which is true, but still like, I work a couple of days a week and every time I come home and I’m like, oh, the baby drank 10 ounces.

And here’s this six that I brought home. You know, if that was a daily thing for me, I’d be done. yeah. Or if you had a partner who just refused or maybe you’re not even together, you’re co-parenting and they just freaking refuse to use your breast milk correctly. Oh gosh. Or like the people who find out that their mother who’s been watching their baby for four months has only been doing formula.

And they’re like, you’ve been throwing my breast milk away? Nice. I would kill somebody. Yeah. Yeah. So if you don’t have the support, it’s very hard to push through with that. So again, reach out for support because this is where you have to dig really deep and put on your mama bear pants and kick some ass sometimes.

To get what you want to get to your goals. And that sucks. And I hate that for you, but that’s the reality sometimes. And that is one of the biggest barriers. And if we don’t talk about it, you won’t know about it. And it’ll just feel like the subconscious bullshit that affects your whole life. Right. And then you won’t feel good about your experience.

So then the last one, the preference to bottle feed. Oh, that one’s so hard. It’s like heartbreaking for a lot of people. Yeah. So this can mean a lot of different things. So most often I hear that breastfeeding parents want to introduce a bottle, so the partner can feel included. They need to be involved with the feeding so they can bond.

And I think what you can do if you have a partner like this, and maybe you don’t agree, but you also want to pick your battles depending on what’s going on in your relationship. Or maybe what happened with the previous child, where you were the sole provider and they had a really hard time bonding is it’s important to tell that partner that they are going to become very important during that gradual weaning process.

So this is when the partner steps up and starts to provide additional emotional support for baby as they drop feeds by doing skin to skin and other developmentally appropriate activities with them. So they can really be that person for the baby who is dropping those feeds and spending less and less time, that kind of time with the breastfeeding parent.

And then these, I think honestly, partners don’t understand that their time is coming. So not saying don’t do bottles, just saying. You know, think about it. If this is a more of a psychosocial thing, because anytime you introduce something new, something else, it does affect the breastfeeding relationship in some way. Maybe not necessarily bad, but it will affect it.

It’s not going to be as straight forward. You’re complicating the situation that might not need to be complicated. And that’s just one more reason that people are like, I’m going to wean. It’s just like, particularly if you’re not going to be away from baby. Like I think about it hard. Is it, is it worth the time for you?

Is it worth the struggle then to keep sending messages to your body about how much milk to make, and then also feeding your baby in a way that is breastfeeding friendly, right? Exactly. So many more, so many more things to think about with, with that. And then trauma. Past trauma is legit. So people that decided to bottle feed because of pas trauma, fine. Great.

Unless you really want to breastfeed and it’s getting in your way. Then we’ll do some CBT EMDR. We have a whole podcast episode on trauma and breastfeeding. Please go check it out. I’ll put that in the show notes as well. But we’re here for that. We understand that. And there’s, there’s different options for you.

So an hour into the episode, Heather, are we at the, so you’ve decided to wean. Now what? No, I have, I have one more thing to say. So the preference to bottle feed, fun fact, that people tend to nurse their youngest babies the longest. Hmm. So, oh man, I’m going to be nursing Lyra till she’s like eight then.

Well it’s possibly because they don’t have a younger sibling getting in the way of the breastfeeding journey, but also possible that they weren’t as preferential towards bottle feeding since they knew this was their last one. Right. Well, we’ll let you know if that, how that goes. Yeah. All right. So now we’ve talked about the history.

We’ve talked about all the things that affect weaning decisions. You know what’s your decision. Maybe you’re like Heather, Maureen, I’m ready. How to wean. So we’re going to tell you how to gradually wean, and then we’re going to tell you how to emergently wean. And it’s not that hard. So let’s just discuss. Gradual to start.

Yeah. Yeah. Gradual weaning. So with gradual weaning, depending on how often your baby is feeding, we usually like to say either start cutting your nursing or pumping sessions short by a few minutes, or try cutting one out for a couple of days and see how that goes. And then if it feels good, cut out another, but go really slow.

This is a process where, you know, you’re going to cut out a feed and think, do I feel engorged? Do I feel like I’m getting a clog or mastitis? As I like fondle my boobs here when you can’t see, you know, and like, how’s my baby handling it? You know, like three or four days later, you’re like, oh, okay. That’s okay.

What if I tried another one? And say you do another and you’re like, whoa, doesn’t feel good. Go back at it, back in, wait a little longer. And I like to drop the afternoon feeding first. You’re not making a ton of milk then it’s like the morning feeds are real hard to drop. That’s going to be the last one. Morning and night should be the last one.

So middle of the night feeds. Cut it. Good luck. Good luck. But if you can, if you got a kid, that’ll go for it. Cut that middle of the night. You use your partner who’s not lactating and be like, please, for the love of God, your turn wake-ups. Your turn. And introduce a lovey like a snugly or whatever in place of a feeding.

So they can start learning how to self-soothe a little bit better than using you. And with a little, a baby under a year, that’s when you’re going to give a bottle or a cup of milk instead, whether it’s expressed milk or formula. And with a baby over a year, we’re probably going to be like, oh yeah, we can nurse, but first we have to take a bath, yeah, we’re distracting.

Maybe we’re singing the ABCs and at the end of the song we’re done, and then it’s kind of like a game. So there’s that as well. And like Maureen said, it kind of depends on how you’re feeling, but we can extend this process out as long as you need. I mean, weaning if it’s starting at six months and some people wean their kid is four, obviously it can be a really gradual process.

Yeah. Yeah. And people have asked, and I saw this in the research. I wasn’t going to put it in, but now I will. People ask, how long is it going to take me to dry up? And it’s like, okay, here’s the answer. On average for humans, it’s about 45 days because you don’t lose contact with that baby, like other mammals, and you’re still snuggling them.

They’re still rubbing on your skin and releasing oxytocin, which kind of keeps the thing going. So if you start weaning and then you’re like, I don’t want to, I do want to keep going, then just to start again. Yeah. I mean, people ask me this a lot and I say, look, it’s probably going to be a few weeks but it might be longer. Regardless if in a few weeks you’re uncomfortable because of the amount of milk you’re making, then let’s talk about it and let’s keep that, figure out what to do.

Yeah. And you know, there is some amount of discomfort that’s okay. Be just some, we don’t want you to be in pain, but some discomfort is okay because it’s that pressure inside the breast that is actually killing the milk cells and they’re decreasing one at a time. Apoptosis, pop, pop, pop, pop, and as they pop, they don’t produce any more milk.

So pressure is actually, what’s kind of helping the situation. It’s like a little microscopic violent thing happening in its wonderful. Okay. So I like to tell my patients if we can let it take a month. Yeah. And, and, you know, I really do talk to people about like, this is one of those processes of two steps forward and one step back and just to expect that.

And my other tip is if you have like a full-blown toddler who is always down your shirt, and the first thing they say to you when you walk in at the end of the day before you can even put your bags down, is booby! Booby! Booby! You come prepared with a snack that they like in your pocket. You kneel down and you give them a snack and you say, I’ll give you this snack, but you got to let mommy put her stuff down and you go sit on the couch and wait for me.

I’ll be there in a minute. Go pee, wash your hands, put your stuff down. They’ve probably forgotten. Yeah. Come, if they’ve forgotten, let them be. If you’ve promised to come back, come back and then you can do like a timed feed. Like I said, with the ABCs or twinkle, twinkle little star or whatever. Or like Maureen said, distract them and just kind of move, move along.

But you’ll get through it and they will figure it out as well as, you know, they start getting distracted and interested in other things. And it’s not easy, but it is what it is. Yes. Yeah. And we talk a lot about in our breastfeeding older babies episode, which I think is episode 10 just about different methods of weaning older babies.

So if you need to be more creative, revisit that episode and if you’re weaning a younger baby, I definitely encourage you to use your partner, have them do skin to skin when they’re giving a bottle and, you know, recreate the comfort and closeness of nursing with bottle feeding. Yeah. I think that’s lovely.

Yeah. And you can always warm up cow’s milk too. That’s a big one. Before bed, you know, if they want that warmth. That’s another thing. My six-year-old asked for warm milk before bed the other night. And I was like, like, it’ll help you sleep. That’s what grandma says. I was like, what like old movie were you watching?

Or something like. I don’t even know where you got that. I never give him milk. Okay. Emergent weaning, because this happens sometimes. So quick, quick, quick, quick, like the weaning. So say you run into a situation for whatever reason you have to emergently wean, we’re going to have to get some medication on board probably, and a very supportive bra, lots of ice.

I’m going to let you talk about the herbs first. Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah. So I just want to preface this with just because I’m saying these herbs could help with weaning doesn’t mean you have to avoid them at all costs while nursing. Okay. Okay. You can chew peppermint gum. It’s fine. So two of the biggest and most commonly used ones are Sage and peppermint.

The way you would use these is most likely loose leaf tea. If you can get bagged tea, you’re going to have to use a couple of teabags per cup, and you’re going to make really strong tea and just drink it all throughout the day. You know, a whole big pot of tea that you’re drinking. A warning is that these are drying.

So you’re going to, especially with the Sage, you’re gonna feel like you’ve got cotton mouth and you’re very dry and you’re going to need lubricate. It’s super bitter. But that’s okay. You push through it. It, it’s not the kind of thing that you’re just gonna like be dried up, but it might support that process.

Right? If it’s at nighttime, you can take Benadryl. Yep. If it’s morning, you can take Sudafed. You will have to show your ID to get Sudafed these days over the counter. Yeah. But any other decongestant should work too. Like Claritin D, anything with the D. Zyrtec D is. Yeah. And Sudafed has, they’ve done a couple of studies and some people saw after just a few doses, like a 25% reduction in milk supply.

Wow. So it can be very effective for some people. Good. We don’t bind breasts anymore. So that’s an old practice, but we do recommend a supportive bra. Don’t let the shower hit your breasts when you’re in the shower. So avoid breast stimulation during sex. And also if you are engorged to the point where it’s like a situation, you can take a little bit off the top.

You don’t want to pump till empty, but you can take a little bit off the top, just pump to comfort, and then continue with that supportive bra. Ice after and take your meds. You can use ice packs. Like I know Lansinoh sells these like boob shaped, titty ice things. You can also use a cabbage leaves you’ve had in the fridge. Just like regular soft ice packs, honestly like those Frida mom, like cold paraniem packs that you just like pop and put on.

Those are great. You can wrap one around each boob. You can also cut the end of a diaper and you open it and you make a pocket inside the diaper and you shove ice in there and then tape the, tape it shut on top and those wrap right around your boobs. So nice. Yup. Yup. All right. So that’s how you wean.

That’s why you wean. And we’re here to support you if you need anything. And let’s thank a Patron. Okay. Today I’d like to thank Bethany for becoming one of our new patrons and she has joined a wonderful little community and she gets behind the scenes. She gets to see the faces I made in this episode and gets to watch me like touching my boobs while I talk. Or am I touching your boobs?

You don’t know cause you’re not a patron yet. But Bethany’s going to know. Bethany will know. So thank you, Bethany, and we really appreciate your support.

Heather did you know, I have an Etsy shop? Yes, I creep on there regularly. Well, listeners, if you didn’t know out there, I have an Etsy shop with my personal artwork on there. I have stickers, posters, t-shirts but my favorite items are my surprise mugs. I have a couple of color changing mugs featuring my little illustrations of vulvas and breasts.

And boy, are they a surprise! Especially when you give it to your boss that you do not like, and they pour hot coffee in it and labia’s abound. I like to give them to like my mom or dad when they visit. Pour them a cup of tea and watch their face. And really, I think everybody needs these in their home. So if you would like one for yourself or anything else that I make, you can visit That’s wandering womb, but with a six instead of a B. And of course that link will be in the show notes. Thanks!

Today our Award in the Alcove goes to Haley Marie Spinks. She’s from our Breastfeeding for Busy Moms group. And she was letting us know that she’s feeling really emotional because her 13 month old is self-weaning. And we just wanted to congratulate her on getting this far and breastfeeding her child this long and continuing to do it through the weaning process.

Right. This isn’t going to be fast. Right. And also, if you aren’t ready to be done, you can push through, like we talked about in this episode and then worry about it when they’re four. But regardless of what happens next, Haley, you’ve done a great job. And you’ve got a wonderful baby to show for it. So today we’re going to give you the Taming the Booby Monster Award.

Yeah. Those toddlers are no joke to nurse and you’ve done a great job with it. Great job. And we’re thinking about you and sending you all kinds of love cause weaning can be emotional. Absolutely. All right. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of The Milk Minute Podcast and educating yourself on breastfeeding.

The way that we change this big system that isn’t set up for lactating parents is by educating ourselves and sharing with our children and our friends. If you found some value in the episode we produced for you this week, please go to, and show us your support with a small donation, which grants you access to cool members- only stuff.

Alrighty. Bye-bye.

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