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Ep. 206 – Ceres Chill Updates: Interview with CEO and Founder Lisa Myers

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Maureen: Hey, everybody. Welcome back. We are here with Lisa Myers, one of our absolute favorite people, the founder of Series Chill. She is back on the podcast. Welcome, Lisa.

Lisa Myers: Maureen, I’ve missed you. To say that I’ve missed you is an understatement.

I am so glad that you and Heather had me back. It has been far too long.

Heather: Yeah, it has been too long since we’ve had you on air. We’ve done some chitter chatter behind the scenes. I mean, there’s been some things, some things have gone on. You’ve had a very big year and we wanted to touch base with you because there was just enough big things that happened that I was like, I’m gonna need to get Lisa back on here.

We need to not only find out what’s going on with you, but you’re just like the fulcrum of all the shit that’s going down in lactation in general. So. So let’s go there. If you don’t mind, let’s get some updates.

Lisa Myers: Yeah, so biggest thing I would say that we didn’t even get to catch up on, but is, I would say, the most meaningful to me.

So you guys know how I feel about Rules and oppression, particularly for moms and pumping moms and breastfeeding moms. It’s just like, if there’s one group of people that really don’t need it, it’s that group, right? Yeah. Right? Yeah. Couldn’t agree more. So, okay, so that said, I, when I started Series Chill back in 2020, a little bit before, but that’s when it really started.

I, I was confronted mostly by Facebook administrators who just wanted to shame other moms. People saying that I was hell bent on killing babies by saying that women could mix warm and chilled breast milk, right? Like. What bothers me most about much of what’s out there is that this, this idea that breast milk is frail, right?

The whole shaking it, the whole adding warm to chill, all these things that we could do. We must hold our breath. around breast milk. Like, careful, careful, careful. I feel like, I think I might have said it before in our prior interview, but it feels so much like the way women had their feet bound, like geisha foot binding, and like, you know, high heeled shoes.

It’s like, women can’t run away, right? There is, we’ve, we’ve hobbled them in some way. And to convince us that our breast milk is fragile, And we need all of these things and we’re not enough that we don’t produce enough that our breast milk can’t be resilient enough. We need all these things. That bothers me.

So this warm to chills rule really was a big deal because a lot of people combine their milk when they use series chill. And a lot of people combine their milk when they use the pitcher method. Whether or not you use the series chill, I don’t care. But it’s nice when. you’re just an offer and you’re maybe only pumping an ounce at a time when you’re combining them, it’s less for you to have to clean up.

There’s just one less barrier to being successful in your breastfeeding journey, which is really meaningful to me because I never really seemed to produce enough. So the Academy of Breastfeeding Medicine has protocol eight, which says Best practice is to chill your milk before you combine it to bring it to the same temperature.

No one, however, says what happens if you don’t. There’s no if you don’t it increases the bacteria. There’s absolutely no studies. There’s no citation. There’s nothing that says What happens if you don’t, right? But if you go to places like Kelly Mom or all these places on the internet, it says, bacteria grows and babies die and the world ends, all these things, which nobody wants.

So nobody wants, I don’t want that, but I thought protocol eight would have to change for things to get easier for moms. I didn’t care about the success of the business. I was honestly just looking to make things easier for moms like me. Honestly, that’s, I was, I had a whole other job, a whole other life. I just wanted to make things easier and the coolest thing, ladies, the coolest thing that happened for me in 2023.

Was earlier in 2023. I was going to say this year, but it’s 2024. Crazy how that happened. But in 2023, I woke up one day And the whole time I had been reaching out to the abm the academy of breastfeeding medicine And I knew that protocol eight was up for revision In 2022 and then it didn’t happen And I was like devastated and like when are they gonna do it because that you know, there’s no evidence out there nothing nothing nothing and You Then one day I woke up and I looked around at all of the incredible moms in the world who were just combining their milk and protocol eight didn’t matter anymore.

Heather: Snaps for

Lisa Myers: Lisa! No, no, but not even that, like, I mean, I, well, Heather, thank you. I will accept that. I will accept that from you and Maureen. I will accept that every day of the week. But. It’s not even, I hope you know that I’m not saying it’s kudos to me. I think that series chill helped because it, a lot of, there were so many more moms combining and there was such greater, more expansive space of acceptance.

But I think that has a lot to do with podcasts like this and communities. I mean, Facebook is what it is. Instagram, I think is in some ways more accepting or it’s just less there’s the way the conversation goes, it ends up being less judgmental in some instances. Social media still can be a hard place, but I just loved, I was, I mean, one day I hope protocol eight changes or at least reflects whatever the research shows, whatever happens, but I just loved that 2023 was the year where There was one less barrier for breastfeeding and pumping moms, and it didn’t have to happen at the establishment level.

It happened at the badass, cool, like milk minute mom level, right? And it went up and down and sideways from there. That was that was 2023 for me.

Heather: Well, I think also what you did and what Series Chill did was start conversations. And that was very helpful because People were afraid before to talk to even their closest friends about breast milk because of that, like, fragility and that, like, what if you do something bad, or they’d always start a conversation, like, they want to ask a question, but they give a little disclaimer in the beginning, like, don’t judge me.

But I’m combining milk. Is that do you do that? Is that okay? Because I literally can’t work a full time job and take care of all these damn kids and pump and do all the things. So like I feed my baby cold breast milk sometimes. And sometimes I just put it all together. And sometimes they take sips of it and I put the bottle back in the fridge.

Is it okay? And so Having these conversations really kind of took that that caveat away that we all felt we had to have before we start any of these conversations and now everyone’s just like, Oh, of course I do that. They’re like me. You do me too. I

Lisa Myers: do it for 10 years. My kids are 35 and seven. I’ve been combining milk.

I didn’t even know. And people are like, Yeah, they live.

Heather: It’s like your kids are special, but they’re not special. Like maybe they all live because it’s fine.

Maureen: And I actually think it’s particularly impressive given the last like two years that not only has that conversation continued, but it’s grown because, you know, we had all the formula recalls.

We had this one case where like, Maybe an infant death was maybe linked to the fridge hack and that, you know, that got a whole lot of press and, you know, it felt like these like literally like three bad incidents over the past two years got more press than anything good in the breast milk world. And, and I feel like it’s wonderful that despite that, I was still seeing people being like, well, You know, I understand this one bad thing happened, but we literally have millions of people doing it this way, and it’s not bad.

Heather: Yeah, they’re looking at the numbers, and I think people are asking better questions, not just going to their doctor and saying, can I or can’t I? They’re, they’re going way deeper, and they’re really, for me, Finding their own research, you know, like in our show notes, we always put the research and I know there are listeners out there that click on that and they do a deep dive.

There are,

Maureen: and we have people who send us stuff and I love it. They’re like, did you read this before you did that episode? I’m like, no, but now I

Lisa Myers: will. Yeah, yeah. And including the notes.

Heather: Absolutely. All right. So what else? Life, other business happenings, goings ons?

Lisa Myers: So yes, life has happened. I can’t even, I mean, my children, Oh, you know what?

I will say there’s so much to talk about. And I know that there’s like a huge, like her fuffle and we all got to spill the tea about people trying to knock me off and that’s coming. So everybody stay tuned, but this is one really Wait, wait, wait.

Heather: Clarification, knocking off the chiller, not knocking her up.

Lisa Myers: Oh yeah. No, no, I’ve not been knocked up. No, that I know of. Yeah, knocking off, not knocking up. I mean, I’m not sure which one would be more scary at this point. As a business owner and a woman in my mid-forties that’s already had two geriatric pregnancies and diastasis recti, I’m not sure which one I want to sign up

Heather: for.

Well, you choose. Let us know. Those are your only two options.

Lisa Myers: So, but what I will say, when thing that happened that I’d love to share with your listeners because I think we, many of us, I shouldn’t say we all, but many of us suffer from mom guilt, self-imposed mom guilt. Well, externally as well, for sure.

But I didn’t exclusively breastfeed my daughter. I actually didn’t exclusively breastfeed my son. I would like every, all of your listeners out there to know, the founder of a breastfeeding accessories. company did not exclusively breastfeed either of her children. Oh,

Heather: I’m clutching my pearls now.

Lisa Myers: But with my daughter, I started formula pretty much from the first night I was in labor for 56 hours.

I think we talked about this before, had an epidural, like any pain medication at 47 hours when they said, we think we can make your contractions stronger. And I started bawling.

Maureen: It’s really not what you want to hear in labor. Like, I’m sorry, you can make this worse. I know, that’ll be

Heather: the end of me. That’ll be the end of me.

Well, I’m gonna die. Yep,

Lisa Myers: yep, this is how it ends. But so, and I was in the hospital, and it’s so, I didn’t have the benefit of a lactation consultant, and I didn’t have the benefit of your guys podcast. And, I was in the hospital and I’d gone through a midwife program, like all of these incredible women around me, but no one gave me good advice, and my daughter was born and she just would not stop crying in those first 24 hours, and I was sure I wasn’t making enough milk.

Right? Like, I didn’t know anything about colostrum, let down, and like, milk coming in, and I guys. I said to my husband, I begged him, I said, she’s starving. I, I’m not enough. Like, can you find someone to feed her? And the nurses slipped us formula. Like they were slipping us crack because it was a baby friendly hospital.

Right. And I’m being like, it was like, don’t tell anyone. Right? Tell no one you got this from us. And on the whiteboard, when I came to after 52 hours of labor, you can imagine I passed out. I came to on the whiteboard. It said your goal for the day, exclusively breastfeed, like double underline. And nobody had asked me.

I mean, sure. That was a goal, but my main goal was to Staying alive. I like, came out of that, like, state, and I was like, Is she alive? And am I alive? And how long can we keep that going? Like, breastfeeding seemed very extraneous. Yeah,

Heather: you’re like, we need to rearrange the priorities on this board. Number one, Chick fil A.

Number two, Number two, I’m gonna need some more sleep. And also to get rid of some of the fluid on my face. Why is my face swollen? Yes,

Lisa Myers: yes, ankles and face. Like, can we please start, like, pulling out the fluid? Yeah, so Anyway, started formula feeding her from night one, and it was only after I had a lactation consultant with my son, years later, she said, Imagine what she was going through.

Not just you being in labor for 52 hours, she was in labor for 52 hours. She’s like, she probably had a headache. And I’m like, What? Like, it hadn’t even occurred to me, but like, I don’t know, like, everything going on, like, getting squeezed and bumped and like, whatever else. So, anyway, I formula fed Teagan. I get so carried away with you guys.

And then I had, I almost exclusively breastfed my son Colin four years later for two years, because it was like the pandemic. Like, you just gotta keep going, right? And my daughter had seizures at four. She started having focal seizures and it, it escalated into a grand mal seizure. And then we took her over to Seattle children’s hospital and they were so great, like world class neurosurgeons that helped us.

And she’s on medication now that manages her seizures. We’ve tried to wean her off unsuccessfully multiple times, but my son was three months old at the time. And I asked the neurologist. What about this little guy, right? And they’re like, oh, no. There’s no history of seizures in your family. No way, no way, no way, right?

And I always had this bit of mom guilt, of course, like had I just breastfed that poor child? You know, she wouldn’t have had these seizures like not like oh the formula caused her or whatever But just a way to feel less that right and like find a way to bring it back to myself It’s so easy.

Maureen: So it is and

Lisa Myers: it well it is when you’re a mom I feel like it’s particularly easy and I don’t know so but my son I mean he’d had like just a handful of ounces of formula in his life that guy got Boob nonstop for two years.

And cause it was during the pandemic and then I’ll be gosh, darn 2023. The little guy turns four, same age as my daughter. And he has a grand mal seizure.

Maureen: Oh my goodness. That’s so

Lisa Myers: scary. And we go to Seattle children’s. And I’m like, Hey, I’m not pointing fingers. I’m just saying, I’m trying to figure this out.

You guys said this wouldn’t happen. And they’re like, yeah, no, it’s weird. So there is no weird, there is some unfortunate combination of my husband’s and my genes. Cause that’s just, you know, the way it looks, right? I mean, no history of seizures on either side, but this is the bit that I want to leave with your listers.

I was sure it was because I’d given that poor girl formula, right? And then I gave my son so much breast milk, the little stinker couldn’t get enough and it, same result, right? You know, we do the best we can. And it’s not to say that breast milk doesn’t have all the benefits that it has, but we find ways to beat ourselves up.

So anyway, back, circling back, 2023, moms. Making their own rules, finding their own way forward and turning the establishment on its head and, and finding the way forward for themselves to do what works. Awesome. My son, unfortunately, having seizures. Seizures showing us all that you can do your best and you can breastfeed and still it doesn’t solve the problem.

All of the problems that we may find for our children or the world. So, yeah, anyway, those are two big things. And then there’s other stuff, too. I don’t know if we have time or you want to get into it. Ah, whatever.

Maureen: We can

Heather: talk about whatever we want. Well, I, yeah, I do say, like, I do want to say, yes, let’s all stop the self-flagellation.

Can we, you know, thank you for that story. I think that definitely makes people feel a lot better because there’s people right now who are giving some formula as a top off and they’re wondering, is this going to cause cancer? And it’s like, no, no. Okay. We’re all doing the best we can with what we have.

Lisa Myers: It’ll be the steak and the red wine and, and the water from the bubbler that causes the cancer. Don’t worry.

Heather: Yeah. for all the Mountain Dew and hot dogs that your son eats. It’s in high school. You know, it’s you’re doing your best buddy. Just hang in there. Yeah.

Maureen: You know, we didn’t have time a minute ago when we were catching up, but I was going to update you on Heather because she didn’t do it herself.

So Heather had a baby last year with me as her midwife, which was great. And then proceeded to have like the hardest four weeks breastfeeding ever. Cause why not? You know, we were like, we’re making a podcast about it. It’ll be great.

Lisa Myers: Oh, I didn’t know that. I know about the baby.

Heather: Yeah, the universe was like, oh, you’re gonna broadcast your pregnancy and your postpartum?

Let me just give you a tongue tie, a lip tie, a baby with like weird neuro stuff with like no feeding cues and asymmetrical reflexes. I was like, the hell is this? Oh my God, but we made it. She’s, you’ll meet her here in a little bit. She’s going to pop in. So listeners, if you hear a bunch of whatever she’s about to do, she has been on her shit today.

Right. You all

Maureen: at home can just imagine her adorable double chin because it’s so fucking cute right now.

Heather: Yeah. So that happened.

Maureen: Have you guys ever been listening to our show and thought to yourself, man, I really want to work one on one with

Heather: Maureen? I do every day that I sit here podcasting across from you. Well,

Maureen: lucky for you and everybody at home, I offer both in person and virtual support through my business. And in my business, Highland Birth Support, I’m dedicated to mentoring you guys through your childbearing year.

So that could start with fertility, all the way through pregnancy, childbirth, postpartum. I offer home birth midwifery services, doula services, lactation support, herbal support. anything you

Heather: guys need. You even do miscarriage support. Absolutely, I do. That’s one of the biggest things that is so hard to find and I think that your people that are local to you are so incredibly lucky to have this service.

Maureen: Thank you and I just feel really happy to serve everybody and I’m so happy I can expand my services virtually as

Heather: well. Yeah, telehealth for lactation has been really important through the pandemic and I think we just about got it. Perfected at this point. So if you guys want to work with me head over to

Maureen: HighlandBirthSupport.

com and check out

Heather: what I can offer you. That’s h i g h l a n d birthsupport. com

Okay, so let me ask you about the demigoddess. Okay, so I use that as a Just on Wednesday of this week, I went on a my first time away from baby and I was going to be on for about eight hours and I was like, I don’t need my whole big Mac Daddy chiller. I mean, the most I’m going to pump is probably 12 ounces.

I’ll just take my little Demi goddess because I was already packing four other bags of crap for like what reason? I don’t know. So I loved it. It worked out very, very well. It was awesome.

Lisa Myers: Well, I’m glad you bring it up. Maureen, do you have any, anything to say on it? Because I have, I’m not pumping

Maureen: anymore, but I use mine as a water bottle and it’s lovely.

Lisa Myers: And a coffee top is coming out. So I’m here for you.

Because it’s perfect. That’s what it, that’s what it is. It is intended for that, like for the years beyond. But so what I will say, Heather is it’s great for short trips. Terrific for the nightstand, but the reason why I finally buckled under the pressure, so it’s expensive to Create molds and tooling especially when you’re a small business when you’re not like a massive corporation You know, owning your own factories, it’s a really big deal.

So I resisted it forever because my whole thinking was you’ve got 12 ounces in the inner chamber and 24 ounces in the outer chamber. Like, you know, pick and like, I mean, and coolers hold 20 ounces, you know, five, five, five, five, or whatever, you know, it ends up, but that’s the traditional Madeleine cooler, right?

There’s a little five. Bounce bottles. And so I thought, it works for everyone. And I had given it a lot of thought. I had so many engineers mansplain me how many ounces of baby drinks in a day. And I’m like, I do not care. I care how much pressure I am feeling in my very prickly, sweaty breasts. Missing a pump session.

That’s what I care about. I mean, you know they get prickly, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It’s not good. So, but the reason why I finally went to the Demi Goddess, and I feel so bad. I have a lot of mom guilt about it taking me so long. I kept thinking the first chiller got, Moms where they needed to be because I was like you’ve got options It’s all about options and you can double pump with that one And then I got so and I kept hearing from moms.

I want bigger I want smaller blah blah blah, but I want it all to do the same but less space I’m like laws of space and time and gravity will always apply serious chill is magical, but not that magical and so One mom sent in an email about the we have a little booklet that we send out that you guys might have received.

That’s the Every Ounce, I call it the Every Ounce Booklet. And it’s about breastfeeding myths, and it’s about how to combine formula with breast milk. And it just tries, I tried to address A lot of the challenges moms faced and help them overcome some of the barriers. And one mom wrote us, we get so many amazing messages, but this mom said, I never felt like I was worthy of a chiller.

It was, it seemed so large and I never, I knew I didn’t make enough. To fill it and I got I decided I needed to buy it because of my work Circumstances and I got your booklet and I read about how I could combine Formula with breast milk and I just wanted to thank you because that’s something I didn’t feel that I could do as a good mom and I never thought I was worthy of the chiller and so seeing that made me feel a lot better and the chillers been a huge help and I’m like How terrible that somebody would see the chiller and not think they were a nurse, right?

And I just, I was like, ugh, I gotta get to work on this right away. Like, this is like, this is the next thing because, I mean, I, I saw it in a different way. Like, I thought I had, like, found an option for everyone. And I’m just such a practical person that for the most part I wouldn’t have, I think I wouldn’t have gotten hung up on that.

But then I went to a meetup in Chicago that Kristen Crail, be my best friend, helped organize. And women came from all over the United States and Canada. They drove, their husbands were like, you can go to, you know, all these concerts to all these other things. So like, no, no, I just want to go to this meetup, which was very flattering.

But I was, I was able to give away Demi goddesses to everybody that attended. And I had two moms come up and say, This filling the inner chamber of the demigoddess is such a big deal for me. And it’s 6 ounces. It’s 6, 12, and 16. And the OG now, because with the new change in the parts, is 27, 12, and 34. And it was just the coolest.

God, you guys, I’m talking so much. But I just wanted to say, Heather, I love you talking about the demigoddess because it’s amazing. It’s all about making sure every mom feels how awesome they are and understands what they’re doing for their kids, whether they’re filling it with formula or they’re putting an ounce of breast milk in it.

That’s everything. And I hope they have an appreciation for what they’ve accomplished that particular day. Yeah,

Maureen: I love that because I mean, Heather and I both all the time when people come in pumping into like 8 and 12 ounce bottles, we’re like, throw those in the fucking trash and get like a literally like the one ounce tube, you know, because then if you pump half an ounce, you’re you feel amazing.


Heather: absolutely. And I mean, I’m kind of selfish. So I just like having options. Like, obviously, I have the bin chiller too. I am not going to be away from my baby for that long just yet, cause my heart’s not ready, but I will on Monday cause she starts daycare on Monday, but that’s okay, but yeah, the short trip I was like, oh, hell yeah, this is really nice, and it’s rose gold, so I got that nice, the nice pink one, and it matched my outfit, and I just felt like really happy.

ready. I was like, look at this appropriately sized chiller that also matches my bag, which also matches my shirt. I’m so ready for this day. You know, I just don’t think you get the same vibe carrying a little tiny black cooler. No,

Maureen: absolutely not.

Lisa Myers: We did have a post the other day on Instagram that was like, is that a demigoddess in your pocket?

Or are you just really happy to see me as a demigoddess in her back pocket of her jeans? I’m like, that is nice.

Heather: That’s really funny. And I will say, like, this is my first time pumping away from the baby, like, not at my office. And so I was visiting somebody else’s office and they were like, oh, here, you can pump in here.

This is Debbie’s office or whatever. And I was like, OK. And so I. Of course, I’m a moron, and I forgot a paper towel or a cloth of any kind. So I’m like, trying not to spill any milk on Debbie’s desk.

Lisa Myers: Bodily fluids, let’s call it bodily

Heather: fluids. Bodily fluids, as I’m trying to like, get, because I didn’t pump directly into it, you know, I’m trying to like, Poor, oh my God, I did it, but I was like, I was like, I’m going to have to Velcro a microfiber cloth to something like, like maybe like those snack cups that have like a screw off bottom with like a drink on top.

I was like, maybe I could get like in the bottom of the series chill for the next one. Lisa, could you put a secret compartment for me to put a ChapStick and also a microfiber cloth? Okay.

Lisa Myers: I’m listening. I mean, I’m gonna, if you, I mean, we will coordinate on the IP. Don’t think that I’m gonna launch this product without you getting proper credit and whatever commission we’re gonna license it.

There’ll be royalties.

Heather: Great.

Lisa Myers: No problem. I mean, game and artwork will be all over it. We’ll find a way to work the whole milk minute podcast talent into the situation. Well,

Heather: you know, I was hoping you would say that. And I’m just always dying to work with any other cool women. And I think that the longer we do this, the more we’re finding women in business that are supporting each other.

So I’m curious, because you’ve been in this since 2020. Now. So like, Have people emerged as the supporters of you? I’m sure you have haters now. I mean, we’ve touched on that a little bit, but like copycats, haters, thieves, you know, but just some straight up thievery going on.

Lisa Myers: Yep, just to name a few, and I love, I love, Maureen has the best Cheshire Cat smile of anyone.

I hope you don’t play poker, Maureen, or I hope it’s just a very different game. I actually

Maureen: have a great poker face because my grandpa taught me to play poker from age of three. What? Oh my gosh. He had a house in Las Vegas, so.

Lisa Myers: Please tell me you’re gonna be, so there, there’s like a crazy bit of nonsense that happens in Las Vegas.

Yes. Why Las Vegas? And it’s always Mother’s Day weekend, the ABC show. Do you girls know about this? No. Oh, it’s when all the baby brands go to Las Vegas. Oh, oh, I do know. I hate to say it, whore themselves. Yeah. All of the retailers. Come girls come

Maureen: and I wish it maybe

Heather: we should treat ourselves. I’ve never been to Vegas

Lisa Myers: and you know how you’re gonna pay for it Heather Maureen is gonna play poker high stakes poker

Heather: Okay, I know several people I’d like to call to the poker table I have to say

Maureen: though, you know, we played for M& M’s as a kid.

So it’s gonna be a little different But that was high stakes as a child cousins And a lot of cousins, you know, so like if you won, you won a lot of candy.

Lisa Myers: And that’s all that mattered. I mean, that was back in the day when kids didn’t get candy automatically. My kids are like, well, what’s for dessert? I’m like, what is your life?

What have I done

Maureen: wrong? What is for dessert? No, we, we had to have, we, you had to do a buy in as a kid, pay my grandpa a dollar for a bag of M& Ms to play poker.

Heather: Buy in. And he’s got a house in Vegas. You’re like, I think you’re fine, grandpa. Maybe you should stop trying to get money from your grandchildren.

Oh, rest in

Maureen: peace. He was giving me something else.

Heather: I tell all my patients who are brand new parents to put a list of soothing techniques on the refrigerator so they can both remember what they’ve already tried for soothing baby. I like

Maureen: to put a happy tummy on that list. It’s a natural herbal wrap that soothes and relieves pain instantly and it’s so fuzzy.

Heather: It’s so great. It helps babies sleep at night, resolves colic, gas, or constipation, and it’s great because it has a little cute animal on the front for when they’re doing tummy time, which provides gentle pressure to help them get their toots out. And you know what?

Maureen: They’re not just for babies, they have

Heather: them for teens and adults, too.

So if you’re struggling with those period pains, get your Herbal Warm Happy Tummy Wrap today by going to HappiTummi. com, and if you love us, enter promo code MILKMINUTETEN for 10 percent off. That’s Milk Minute 10 for 10 percent off your happy tummy. Thank you so much for supporting the show.

Maureen: Heather, when you were nursing Heidi, did you get thirsty

Heather: every single time? Every single time I sat down to nurse. It was like the Sahara Desert had taken up residence in my mouth. Same, and my go to

Maureen: drink right now is Liquid

Heather: IV. Oh, me too. Liquid IV makes your water work harder, because it has a hydration multiplier in it that’s great tasting, non GMO, and it actually has.

Cellular transport technology that delivers hydration to the bloodstream faster and more efficiently than water alone.

Maureen: You can also get their immune support blend, energy blend, or even one that helps with your sleep health.

Heather: My personal favorite is lemon lime and I think it actually makes me drink water two times faster, which is always handy when you have a screaming baby in the room.

I really

Maureen: like the tangerine and if you want to try that today you can go to the link in our show notes and use our discount code milk underscore minute for 15 percent off your

Heather: order. That’s milk underscore minute for 15 percent off your liquid IV today. Happy drinking.

Lisa Myers: So for all your listeners we’re going to find a way to like maybe get an Airbnb where we can all stay. Oh my goodness. And then we can go watch Maureen play.

Heather: I think that sounds like the best vacation that anyone has pitched to me. Really? We’ve never

Maureen: taken a vacation together. And it’s

Lisa Myers: for Mother’s Day.

My birthday, I was born on Mother’s Day. So the amount of stress, the, the, the next level there every single year. The level of rage and upset. I mean, the tears. My husband can’t handle it. The pressure. I’m like, please ignore my birthday. I don’t actually care. And then it’s like Mother’s Day on top. I’m like, can we pretend none of it’s happening?

And just regroup in June?

Heather: Like, nope. Yeah. Poor guy. He’s like sweating trying to just celebrate you. I know.

Lisa Myers: Heather, it’s your plea for him. I thought I was the one that was

Maureen: talking about my

Lisa Myers: crying.

Heather: Oh, I thought you said he was crying.

Lisa Myers: Oh, no. He, I mean, well, maybe he is, like, quietly somewhere else. I’m busy crying.

I’m focused on my tears. Oh, right. Okay. Well, back to you. Back to me and everybody who is taking advantage of me. Moms and serious children. Great. We’re back. So, your question. A good one. I would have never been this successful without women like you, and I had no idea how much I needed you until I got into the space.

Right? Like, I didn’t know what it was to be a mom. I’m an oldest child. I grew up on a farm. I painted fences for like, you know, 50 cents an hour, you know, with my little purple Walkman on, I mean, I grew up in the age before cell phones and iPods, but it was different. And I was, I was really proud of what I could accomplish by myself.

And then this company. Became something epic, and it’s women who drive dump trucks, who are executives, who fly airplanes. fighter jets, commercial planes, who stay at home and homeschool, or just get kids off to school. I mean, the whole thing, right? And they all give me perspective and each other advice and wisdom.

Truly, I, I’m not a super religious person, but, like, blessings upon blessings, right? I mean, there’s no other way to say it. And moms deserve the best, and they have been deprived of that, I would say, from the beginning, and still are, but we’re catching up, right? But I think one of the best ways to look at it is milk storage.

Absolute crap, I feel, until Ceres Jill came along. Drinking my own Kool Aid, of course. But also, like, the mom milk math, which I’m sure you guys have seen, right? 5 ounces in Medela is different than 5 ounces in Dr. Brow is different than 5 ounces in Spectra. Why can’t we all Get a consistent measurement and for moms And you know that like pediatricians is like how many ounces do they take and even for lactation consultants not that we’re trying to put that pressure on moms, but it’s like a gauge of How are we doing not?

How worthy are you of his mother? How healthy is your child? But like, how are we doing? Where are we going? And so that measurement is important and yet we can’t even nail that. Flow rate on nipples. Also a mystery. I want to create a nipple that works for moms. I’m looking for the measurement. Nobody.

Nobody knows. Like, there’s one expert out there that has tried to nail it down. I’m like, how, how, how are we not doing a better job for moms? So, the more women work together, the more communities like yours exist, the better we’ll all do. Your mom’s participating in research, and I’ll make sure I provide you guys with links like the Human Milk Institute.

Is now, it’s started in Southern California. It’s associated with the California San Diego Milk Bank. And the Human Milk Institute is the first research institute in the world that’s dedicated to human milk research. I mean, isn’t it about time? And so, the more we support each other, the better things go.

And yet, there are companies and entities And individuals that still insist on getting in each other’s way. And I have to say, and this will probably be pretty controversial. Women are the worst about it. I don’t know why we, yeah, Maureen.

Maureen: Well, I mean, it’s, I, I mean, like anything else, it’s hard as in patriarchy and misogyny, right?

Like, and, and we see this across different oppressed groups. Right. Where for some people, they definitely find the space to like rise up and work together. But the way that oppression works is it rewards us for working within the system that’s oppressing us and for like basically rising above by putting down everybody else in your oppressed group.

Lisa Myers: I hadn’t thought about it in those terms, but yeah. No, that makes sense. What were you gonna say, Heather?

Heather: Well, I was gonna say also you’re playing in more than one space because is it retail? Is it medical? Is it a human right? Is it a body fluid? Is it milk? You know, there’s, there’s a mystery. It’s a mystery.

So you kind of play in that gray area similar to A lot of stuff that I do as well, and that can be really challenging because from a marketing perspective, it’s challenging, but also people want to know, like, people want to and feel more comfortable when they can classify you, you know, human beings want to put people in boxes so they can understand the story.

And you are coming in here with this bright, shining smile and you’re like, I don’t want a label. I just want to make women’s lives better. And the women are like, but what are you? Is this

Lisa Myers: like, is this medical? Are you a good mom or a bad mom? Are you trying to kill babies or keep them alive? Right.

Heather: Is this for me?

Like, or is this not for me? Or like, should I check with my doctor? Will insurance cover it? And you’re just like, just. But it’s, you know, and I, I totally appreciate that you are not quitting because I think the majority of people that even have to put a toe into this bullshit health care system that we work within are like, no, thank you.

That was a mess and I’m out and I think you’re seeing a lot of the current issues politically and just systemically that we have within lactation. Care and licensure and certification in the United States, and it is messy. You all, it is very messy. And Lisa is just like trying to sell a product to make mom’s lives better.

And yet, why are you involved in politics of lactation? This is why it’s unique because like someone could sell a basketball sneaker, but that NBA.

Lisa Myers: Yeah That is that is really interesting and I’m you know what and it’s so it’s so interesting to hear you say I’m, not even trying to sell a product heather as crazy as that is and that’s the crazy thing is I’m like I’m, not even trying to make money if there’s a way I can help moms without them buying the chiller I’m all for it.

And people think that I’m full of bologna, and I’m like, no, no, no. There’s some moms that reach out and they’re like, I’m trying to get across the Atlantic Ocean and I need to transport 34 ounces, but I don’t need the inner chamber. I’m not going to chill it. I already have it chilled. I just have to get back to my son.

I’m like, Do you have a Yeti? Like, do you have something? Do you have a high quality water bottle on hand? Because if you’re not chilling it, if you can get it down, like, to as close to freezing as possible without freezing it, and then it’s fine. Like, same with Good Buy Gear. Love them so much. They’re keeping billions, their goal is to keep billions of pounds of child product waste out of landfills, and we send all of our unopened boxes and returns to them.

And then they inspect them, sterilize them, make sure that it’s like full disclosure to every customer. And they sell them for like 40 bucks, 45 bucks, whatever it is. I don’t care if a mom who’s a student or a police officer or someone who’s trying to like figure out whether they contribute to their kid’s college fund or buy their breast milk chiller.

Get it from Goodbye Gear. Like, what a great company, and I mean, you don’t, whatever, like, I’m, take me out of the mix, so or use your Yeti. If that’s all you need is, like, cold milk storage, like, but, this is what I’ll say. Do not use it for warm milk storage. Some people pour their newly expressed breast milk into a Yeti or a knockoff Yeti, and that will keep it at 98 degrees until it rots.

Yay. And then you will smell it. Yeah. Do not feed it to your child. I don’t know if you want to use it for a bath. Like, don’t.

Heather: Right, right. I wouldn’t

Maureen: even put it in a goopy eyeball. This is a key, key element of the chiller. If you’re doing that.

Lisa Myers: Yes. Yes. Exactly. So that is the disclaimer there, but yeah, so I got a bit far afield.

Things are moving forward at an incredible and impressive rate, but still not fast enough. I will give Serious Chill some credit. And then other companies who value moms, their time, parents efforts, and anyone who’s trying to chest feed, breast feed, convey human milk to a child, or just survive by giving formula.

All of it’s important, and everybody deserves support. Innovation and information and research are key. There’s still not enough and I unfortunately have found that people will look for the first opportunity to grab cash when they’re desperate and I’m very proud to say that we’ve set ourselves apart and shown that the world that breast milk storage that keeps up with mom’s challenging lives is important.

And so everyone who doesn’t want to work with us wants to be us. So they, there have been some knockoffs and some people who outright stole words directly from my mouth off the website, to the extent that you could cut and paste what they said To their followers and on their website and drop it into Google and it would take you to the series show website And yet they still claim they had not Violated any copyright or stolen any intellectual property from series show and I’m like really because Google tells me otherwise

Heather: Yeah, can I ask a legal question?

Yeah. I imagine that suing somebody for that, not saying that you are, but I imagine that that would be a lengthy process. And when you are in the product business where you are, it’s constantly churning, churning, churning, and you have to like take a hot minute to go sue somebody real quick for like patent infringement or whatever.

Is that like? Yeah. How many years are we talking before that’s resolved and like how many millions or whatever could they potentially make off of a knockoff of a patent that you own? Like, how deep does that go? How hard is that?

Lisa Myers: So for a small company, it’s the end. So in something that happened in 2023, One of our, I would say, colleagues, some people would call them competitors in the space, Mila’s keeper, was, I would say, implicated in the nonsense that happened.

I always have admired what she has done. She is really impressive founder who cares about moms and has a clear mission. I think she worked for, I’m going to get it wrong and she can, Laura can be critical of me later. We’ll have a talk. But I think she worked for UNICEF. She advocated for moms internationally who were in really challenging working conditions.

So she impresses me as a person. I think the design of my milk chiller is superior because I mean, I am me.

Heather: Why would you make it? Why would you keep making it if you

Lisa Myers: didn’t believe in it? Right, exactly. But hers is an alternative. And mom’s having choices is huge. And they’ve deserved better than coolers for decades.

And there is more than one choice. And I really admire her for the work she’s done. It appears to me that her patent was knocked off. Our copyright was directly lifted. And stolen, in my opinion. And in Google’s opinion. But that’s, that’s how it looked to me. And I was really proud to stand with her. But we didn’t have to do anything.

It was all of these other women who knew what moms needed that called the offending company or person out for what had happened. And It’s a community. Like, that’s what’s changed. Moms aren’t now standing alone, whether as a business owner, or as a mom that’s mixing temperatures, or asking a question about, I gave my son this bottle, I don’t make enough.

I put it back in the fridge. Can I still feed him in four hours? Like I don’t like you fool you idiot. Don’t you love your son? Like no, like I don’t know. Let’s have a conversation about it. Like how does it smell? How does it taste like I don’t know. It’s just And now I feel like it’s a more nuanced conversation.

There’s still bad actors, but there’s enough change in the space that the innovation is there and the intention is there. And now women feel empowered to say, I’m doing this. What do you think? Or I’m doing this. It’s been fine, or I have a company, I have my IP. Oh, that was not a good answer to your question.

My answer to your question is, it’s an exhausting process, it will cost millions. If you’re smart, you protect your IP to the best of your ability up front. I’m happy to give any of your listeners the best advice I have. The U S patent and trademark office is amazing and makes it really easy for you to file your own trademarks, your own provisional patents.

You guys have probably seen, and I’ll, I’ll provide you guys the link. I filed my own provisional patent. I’m a lawyer, but I’m a litigator. I tell good stories in court, right? I’m not a patent attorney. I’m not a practical attorney. And so funny. I can’t draw a straight line to save my life. If you guys saw the picture, I drew the first killer.

It’s the most adorable. I mean, put it on your fridge folks. Like so cute. It’s so precious. But it got a patent, an international patent that I can enforce. The question is always, do you want to put your millions toward helping people or going after Jerks that are trying to take something from you or from moms And it’s always gonna be a tough question.

I have to protect the company to protect the mission, but at the same time like my focus will always be on Where are we going next? Not hopefully what somebody else is doing.

Heather: Yeah, and I think so. The takeaway there is you found out that you have a community that rallied behind you and is doing some other things other than court and legal stuff that’s, that’s pretty swift.

And it’s not millions. It’s just like, Hey, this is wrong. And you know, I don’t watch sports, but this has been the closest thing to like watching the Michael Jordan of breastfeeding products, you know, and just your journey. And it’s just like, we’re all rooting for you. You know, it’s like, it’s like your favorite sports team, I imagine for people that watch sports ball, but You know, I want you to succeed.

I’m really pumped to watch this game, you know, and, and I’m pissed when somebody fouls you. And I think a great mixed sports metaphor. I’m really into basketball today, but yeah, I think a lot of people feel that way. And as a business owner, I guess one of the deepest fears that I didn’t even realize I had that you kind of named is like, what if something happens to me in my business and nobody’s there for me?

And I find out I never really did make a difference. Like that people didn’t really care about the changes I was trying to make. That might be one of my biggest fears.

Lisa Myers: I don’t think you have to worry about that. Me neither. And let it go. I mean, there’s so many other better things to worry about and I did not, but that’s like, why are we all here?

Right. Isn’t that be like our worry about like, what did we really do with our lives? If so, yeah. So there’s a great quote that, gosh, I wish that I. I wish that I had ready for you guys. It’s one I’ll have to put in the notes, but it’s success by Ralph Waldo Emerson. Do you guys know this one? Maybe.

Anyway, it’s, it’s, it’s to your point, Heather. It’s about like, why are we really even here? And, and certainly for the business and as breastfeeding moms. So if you guys mind, I found it. Go for it. I feel like it speaks to like your, your mom’s, like what, Well, I, I hope everybody hears their value in this. So success Ralph Al Emerson to laugh often and much to win the respective intelligent people and the affection of children.

To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends. To appreciate beauty, to find the best in others, to leave the world a little better. Whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived here.

This is to have succeeded.

Heather: Yeah. I mean, I can’t think of a better way to end this episode. To be honest with you, absolutely. I think that is so apt and so beautiful and such a great reminder. I definitely needed that and I’m sure everybody else did too. So any other updates before we let you go tackle The next year, which is the current year, which is 2024.

As we just found out during this episode, it is 2024. I

Lisa Myers: know, you know, please let’s talk before we get to like 2025. We’ll be in 2026 and we’ll be like who’s feeling 2026 right now? No, you guys are the best and I just I so love your podcast And I wish I would have had this as a mom I hope you’re I mean, we’ll definitely do like notes in that.

I want to catch up with you soon I feel like this was mostly my chance to be with people who Gave me the energy I needed to go forward. I hope it was meaningful for your listeners but they’re the ones that mean so much to me and Keep me going. It’s those women and your guys’ mission. That’s like everything.

I hope I somehow communicated that Ralph Waldo Emerson, success,

Heather: right? I think what you’re trying to say is I love you and we love you too.

Lisa Myers: Oh my gosh. Can you please follow me around and be like, I think what you’re trying to say is emoji, laughing, crying face.

Heather: Oh my gosh, Lisa, it has been a true pleasure as always. And we promise it will not be another two years before we talk again. We do hope that you keep stirring up all kinds of trouble in the lactation world and We’re here for it. We’re here for all of that. I will totally be your hype woman and just stand behind you and go, Yeah, what?

Yeah. So, anytime.

Lisa Myers: Okay, perfect. I’ll miss you guys till then.

Heather: Okay, we’ll see you soon.


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