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Ep. 115 – Abortion Care While Breastfeeding

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Ep. 115 – Abortion Care While Breastfeeding

Before you guys listen to this episode, I just wanted to say we recorded it a little while ago, but current events have made it so that we need to do a quick update. So in the past week, Roe V. Wade was in fact overturned by the Supreme Court. And you’ll hear us say that, oh, that’s a possibility in the episode.

Yeah. That’s because it was before. Yeah, we kind of knew it was heading in this direction and  midwives and birth workers and people all over the United States had mobilized to make sure that didn’t happen. And it happened anyway. And that’s kind of just what it’s been feeling like for the past few years. Just completely out of control things that are just not working for people just keep prevailing and, you know, we would be remiss to not say that we are very sad about it.

Like we’re, we’re sad. Yeah. We feel very defeated. And we want you to know that if you’re feeling that way too, you’re not alone. And also we just wanted to let you know that even though these laws are passing, there are still people out there that are willing to answer your phone call  and point you in the right direction of resources if you find yourself in a situation where you need medical assistance for an abortion.

So this episode hits a little bit different one week post Roe v Wade overturn, and we are going to do a midweek bonus episode update about some other current events, because life is crazy right now. We love y’all though.

Yeah. We love you. We’re here for you. And we really hope in the future that no more rights are taken from you. That’s, that’s our hope.

This is Maureen Farrell and Heather ONeal and this is the Milk Minute. We’re midwives and lactation professionals bringing you the most up to date evidence for all things lactation. So you can feel more confident about feeding your baby, body positivity, relationships, and mental health. Plus we laugh a little or a lot along the way.

So join us for another episode. Hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome back to another episode of the Milk Minute Podcast. Happy to be here. Thanks so much. Anyway, I’m actually excited about today’s episode. Before we get into it, do we have any patrons to thank? We do. Of course we do. Patrons be popping. We’ve got Ashton P from West Virginia and Kenzie from Virginia.

Oh, wonderful. Welcome to the club. Thank you so much for supporting our podcast. Your support basically just makes it possible for us to sit here and talk about what we love for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours. So thank you. And then to disseminate it over the interwebs to everybody else.

Research dissemination is very important and also just friendly reminder, this is free for you for a reason, because that’s one of our major tenants is that we believe that evidence based lactation information should be free yeah. And accessible to all people. Absolutely. And we just really trust that people will make the best decisions for themselves and that they deserve, then the information that allows them to do so.

Which leads us right into our episode topic for today, which is accessing abortion care while lactating. Yes. And safety of medications and procedures. Yeah. It’s a thing you guys, it’s a thing that happens. Yeah. Might have happened to you.

You know, we’re really excited to just kind of do some destigmatization about this today. Do we have a question before we begin? Yeah, we do. Okay. So the question we have today is another one from TikTok. And this one is from an account name called pink physics. And I, it was on a video about talking to your doctor before using any homemade formulas.

But basically they said since we don’t have universal healthcare, who is someone without healthcare supposed to go to? I’m curious what resources there are. And my answer is actually WIC right now is pretty keyed into the formula shortage situation. And a lot of offices have been advertising that they have infant nutritionists that are like on call, ready to answer questions regardless of whether or not you receive WIC.

So call them. Yeah, definitely go straight to the source. Those are the people that actually get the giant shipments from the state level for you specifically to use. So they should have access to that information when the next shipment is coming. All of those things for you. Yeah. So and that’s usually like free and pretty easy to access and especially in a crisis, like WIC usually really steps up and tries to help everybody they can.

Yes. And we thank them so much for that. Yeah. Okay. Oh, and we have a History of WIC episode. We do. That will link in the show notes. What number? You remember? Who knows too many numbers, everybody. That’s fine. We’ll figure that. Now that we got above a hundred, I’m like, that was number, I don’t know, 50, 60, maybe 70?

Yeah. And hopefully by the time this episode airs, our website will have a search function on it. Oh, are we getting it? We’re getting that. Yes. I actually invested some time and money into getting our web designer to put a search function in. It’s in process. If it’s not done already, it will be. That would be super helpful.

Yes. Otherwise I actually, when I’m trying to pull these up, I just search Milk Minute Podcast plus whatever the keyword of the episode is, and it usually comes up right away. Really? Awesome. Yeah. So we’re actually pretty SEO friendly. Well, that’s the other thing I’ve invested in. So that’s gonna be coming soon, also.

Hey everybody, Heather here with some good news for you. If you’ve been wanting a lactation consult with me, but you’re not really sure how to go about it, I finally can take some insurance. So if you have Blue Cross Blue Shield, Anthem, or Cigna PPO, there’s a very good chance that you can get your visits a hundred percent approved with me.

So if you fill out the short form, it’ll take less than two minutes in the show notes with your insurance information we’ll know in as little as five hours if you’re approved. And then we’ll throw you right on my calendar and then we get to hang out and guess what? It’s not just one visit. I can see you prenatally.

I can see you before you go back to work. I can see you when you start solid foods. I can see you through weaning. I mean, we got this whole journey covered. So shout out to those insurance companies for valuing this as work, and I’m here for you every step of the way. So click the link in the show notes to learn more about my private consults and make sure that we can get you what you need. I look forward to working with you. Bye.

Okay. So do we wanna start like, just with some definitions, because I think there’s a lot of confusion, especially when we are seeking care at a hospital about like, what is an abortion? Why maybe does it say that on your paperwork when you come home from a miscarriage? So right. Let’s talk about it.

Yeah. And this confuses my nursing students all the time. So I will have my nursing students on the floor. They will open a patient’s chart and I’ll see their eyes get really wide. And they’ll say, oh my gosh, Mrs. ONeal this patient had 10 abortions. And then I have to explain, first of all, implicit bias and judgment and then finally terminology.

So you will see all three of these things I’m about to tell you about are considered abortions in your chart, right? Okay. So a spontaneous abortion is considered the parts of conception that are no longer forming, otherwise known as a miscarriage and the body actually begins the steps of eliminating it on its own.

So this would be considered like a quote unquote, regular miscarriage, spontaneous abortion. Yeah. Usually these happen at home. We don’t need extra medical care. You know, sometimes you might need help to complete that. Yeah. So secondly, we have a missed abortion or a missed AB where it’s discovered on ultrasound, that the pregnancy is no longer forming and you have miscarried, but the body has not eliminated the pregnancy on its own yet.

So you have a couple options here. So first you could do watchful waiting and we’ll monitor clotting labs every three days to make sure that your body is functioning normally, and that we’re not clotting in, in weird ways. Or the surgical removal of the parts of conception. So that’s where you would go in and you would get what’s called a D&C

so a dilation and curettage where they kind of go in with a little curette and they kind of suction everything out that’s left in there and clears the mechanism. If you are over 17 weeks of gestation, that would be considered a D&E, not a D&C. Yeah. And then we have thirdly, an elective abortion or ITOP, induced termination of pregnancy.

And this is one in which the pregnancy may or may not be compatible with life, but the parent is choosing to stop the pregnancy and eliminate the parts of conception. Yeah. And another term you might see thrown around is T F M R. And that stands for terminated for medical reasons. And we usually see that when we are having a later term termination, you know, baby’s not compatible with life.

Parents are choosing that option and it’s essentially the same as an induction of labor. Yeah. Similar to an ITOP. Yeah. Or is it any different than an ITOP? I think it technically is one, it’s just a term that I think a lot of parents who’ve experienced that kind of loss feel more comfortable using. And it’s just nice to know all those things.

And I think it helps to just kind of group them all together like that because all of the procedures for many different things, right, spontaneous loss, elective, termination, for medical reasons, like we’re using the same procedures for all of these. So we’re gonna talk about them together in this episode about like what’s safe during breastfeeding and what precautions you have to take.

Right. And the reason we wanna talk about all of this is because you might have noticed some things in the news lately yes about abortion. So if you haven’t, if you don’t like to watch the news. I just, I also like if you have, but maybe you haven’t heard the complete news story, I just kind of wanna give you a recap about like why this is a current event.

Early in May the public in the United States became aware of a leaked Supreme Court document. If you do not live in the United States, the Supreme Court is our highest judicial level. And they decide like constitutional things. Like what are your rights as a human in this country? So this document is an initial drafted majority opinion, stating that the Supreme Court has voted to overturn our right to abortion via the Roe V Wade decision.

So this decision would also overturn like a subsequent 1992, like planned parenthood case. The immediate impact of this would essentially end 50 years of guaranteed federal constitutional protection of abortion rights, which means each state would make this decision on their own to either restrict, ban or allow abortion.

Right. So basically they’re giving the decision making back to the states yeah. At the state level. So this is, you know, say what you will, but yeah. You know, like depending on the state, that could be great or absolutely terrible and possibly criminal in some cases, yes, for accessing an abortion.

Because we are seeing at the state level lawmakers with very little understanding of medicine and physiology and science saying that, you know, they might ban terminations of ectopic pregnancies, which are deadly to the mother. I mean, just some really wild stuff that makes me wonder what the fuck is happening.

Right. And also, you know, there’s people that say, yeah, but abortion is nowhere in the constitution. It wasn’t written in there originally. So why is this a federal issue? And I like to remind people, women weren’t mentioned in the constitution at all and still are not. Yeah. So women were not considered in the original document.

Period. Right. So we are kind of relying on the 14th amendment and we’ve stretched that 14th amendment as far as we possibly can. And so our concern obviously is for people’s access to medical care and independent decision making, but also we’re relying on that 14th amendment, which also covers protection for our LGBTQIA friends.

So if this gets overturned, what’s next? Yeah, it’s very concerning to a lot of people for many reasons. And in light of that, I wanna remind you guys that we have an episode about Contraception and Breastfeeding because a lot of people really think more carefully about the contraception methods that they’re using if they’re unable to terminate an unplanned pregnancy.

So please go back and listen to that. If you’re like, yeah, maybe I do wanna get something that’s longer acting and a little bit more effective. And, you know, please know that midwives and birth workers are absolutely aware of this situation and we are all over it trying to help you retain bodily autonomy.

Right, but there is no greater push than a grassroots push from people just like you speaking up about what they actually want because politicians rely on your votes and they need to make the people happy. So tell those people what you want and what you need. And you know, maybe they’ll actually give it to you because they wanna stay in office or overturn somebody.

Now, I know that a lot of the news we hear about abortions is really dehumanizing to the, to the people who seek that medical care. And it makes them seem like pretty terrible people. So I just wanna talk about like, why are we mentioning this on a podcast about breastfeeding? Who gets abortions?

What is happening in this podcast today? And maybe not all our listeners are happy about this, and I’m okay with that. I think this is a really important topic to talk about. Yeah. Our aim here is not to say do or don’t. Yeah. It’s happening and it’s happening to people who breastfeed. So it does apply to this podcast and it may not apply to you right now, but it might next month.

And you’ll know that it’s here. So if you’re angry about it today’s but then you find yourself, it’s okay. But if you find yourself in a situation later, we wanna make sure it’s here for you and here for everybody. So make your own choices. That’s what we love. That’s the foundation that we stand on here at this podcast is making sure that you can make choices for you.

Which is so important, freedom. And we have always trusted you to make the best decision that you can for your own life. Your own circumstances. Nobody else can make that decision, but you and we support you. We care particularly about this because did you know that 61% of people who seek abortion care in the United States already have children? And might even be breastfeeding.

Lots of them might be. Can I paint a, like a picture for you, Heather? And everybody listening? So who gets abortions? Right. The average person who is seeking this care is below the poverty line, in their late teens or twenties. They have some college education. They already have a baby. They’re not married and they are very early in pregnancy. They’re below 13 weeks’ gestation.

And I just want you to think about that person because I feel like a lot of us have been her. In your early twenties with a baby, in college, without money. And bam, you have an unexpected pregnancy. Some of you make the choice to continue with it.

And some of you make the choice to terminate it. Both of those choices are fine with me. And me. Yeah. And I just wanna be supportive of both of those. Most people only get one abortion. About 25% of women will have an abortion before menopause. And that’s about the same amount that have a miscarriage.

Yeah. One in four miscarry. And the interesting thing, abortion rates have been declining steadily in the past 30 years, which if you just listen to American news, you’d be like what? Because people have been getting louder and louder about being anti-abortion, but thanks to increased access and education about contraception, right, thank you, Planned Parenthood. Like that rate is going down right?

Yeah, fun fact. Did you know that I used to run the family planning clinic in Marion County, West Virginia, as a midwife? Saw tons of people, like 30 people a day, coming in for their birth control refills. And some people even used it more as like a primary care.

Yeah. And would drive from other counties just to go to that county to see me, because it was actually faster in some ways just cuz the way our geography is in West Virginia, but then when COVID hit, they shut down the program to make room for all the contact tracing and the nasal swabbing for COVID.

And that immediately cut off contraception access to patients over several counties in the state of West Virginia. And this happened in other states as well. Yeah. And we actually, you know, as far as like abortion regulation goes in West Virginia, it’s not super restrictive, but we don’t have a lot of places to access it.

And neither do we have a lot of places to access family planning care. Right. And that’s also at the state level. So depending on your state’s priority for family planning it could be the first thing on the chopping block when anything else comes up. Absolutely. And let me just say that states that have greater access to contraceptive and less restrictions on abortion have lower abortion rates, right?

Because people have ways to take control of their reproduction and, you know, states with less abortion restrictions also have lower maternal mortality rates. Yes. Because pregnancy is fucking dangerous. Yeah. You know, like it is a dangerous thing for people and having better access to life saving care is really important.

And it should be a choice on whether or not your body goes through that dangerous process. And yeah, we always say all the time, like pregnancy is normal. It is normal until it’s not. Yeah. You know, and it’s kind of a role of the dice. You never know. We do the best we can through excellent prenatal care and just like knowing your body to prevent these things.

But you know, the minute you get pregnant, your risk increases for certain things. You know, I’m not pregnant right now and my risk for bleeding to death is pretty much zero. Yeah. Unless I go get hit by a car. When I get pregnant and there’s a placenta involved with millions of little spiral arteries that have dug into my maternal vascular system and blasted them apart and my blood volume has doubled. I’m gonna say yeah, my, my risk for bleeding to death has pretty much, I don’t know, 300% increase.

I mean, it’s just like, it increases when you get in your car. Right. Right. And like, that’s something we should be able to consent to. Right. So, and 92% of abortions do happen in the first 13 weeks of gestation.

And the majority of those are actually prior to 10 weeks, which makes those people eligible for a medication abortion, which is much less invasive. It can be done through the mail. It can be done through the mail. It’s much more private. Yeah. Less traumatizing in some cases where you can do it at home and you can do it with a midwife and you can do it with a doula who specializes in that for home care.

And it can be whatever you need it to be. You have a lot more control in that situation about how your experience goes and I think that’s really important for people. It is. And the interesting thing is about half of like elective abortions are still surgically managed, even though they don’t necessarily have to be.

And that’s about like medication accessibility. And I think we’re actually seeing an increase in accessibility to those medications. Right. So since we’re talking about medications let’s talk about how they affect lactation. Right, because that’s gonna be one of the things that you have to talk with your provider about when you let your provider know that yes, I’m pregnant.

I no longer want to be pregnant. I am currently breastfeeding my other child. Yeah. Your provider might be aware of that and very educated about it and they might not, and they might, they might say, oh, well, you’re gonna have to stop breastfeeding if you’re gonna go through this. Right. And that’s not true.

So reminder, all of this information is free and available to the public through the infant risk helpline or the LACT med website. Right. So we have two medications that we typically use for medication abortions. Not listed is Plan B, right? Okay. Side note, hill that I will die on. Plan B is not an abortion pill.

Okay. Plan B delays ovulation. It does not interrupt a pregnancy that has already formed and implanted in the uterus much like your birth control pill does not. Okay. So you can be taking your pill and get pregnant and then still take your pill for three more months and be like, oh, turns out I’m three months pregnant.

Your birth control pill did not interrupt that pregnancy. Okay. Plan B delays ovulation. So if you have had intercourse and semen is floating around inside of you just waiting for an egg to drop, semen can survive for three days to a week sometimes depending on the strength of the semen and the sperm.

And so it, it prevents your egg from popping out and coming into contact with that semen. Okay. Yeah. It might prevent fertilization if there’s already an egg around there and it might prevent like attachment to the wall, but we don’t have a pregnancy yet. Right. So let me just remind you that if you see anything on social media or hear any politicians talking about how Plan B is killing babies, that is false. Yeah. So if you see that Plan B is talked about as abortion, that’s misinformation, and you can just disregard that.

Okay, well, let’s talk about these medications. We have misoprostol or the brand name is Cytotec and we have mifepristone, right. Or Mifeprex. Let’s start with meso. Yes, misoprostol. It is an L two it’s used for induction of labor as well as treatment for postpartum hemorrhage. Yeah. So really commonly used within 24 hours of breastfeeding.

It is an off-label use for all things pregnancy, by the way. Yeah. This is a drug for, it’s not, it’s gastrointestinal, isn’t it? Yeah. It’s a gastrointestinal drug actually. I had a friend who took it as a teenager, not for pregnancy reasons, for her gastrointestinal system and the pill pack, the little part you pop out to get the pill, had a picture like a pregnant silhouette with a little red circle and an X through it.

Still has it. Yes. To remind you each time you should not be pregnant when you take it, because it will induce an abortion. Or an ejection of something from your uterus. Yes, because we will use it to induce a healthy term pregnancy, certain. And so those little tablets can be inserted up the bum, inserted in the vagina, eaten, or placed under the tongue.

We’ll pretty much stick ’em anywhere there’s a mucus membrane and we end up, have you seen anyone sticking up a nose yet? I have not, but. Me neither, but anything’s possible. Anything’s possible, I guess. But, but when you have so many other options, why would you do that? I don’t know. I always am like, is it really more effective to do it rectally?

No. No, but I think the thing there, like if it’s postpartum is because of all the blood. Anyway, anyway So, yeah, this medication is present in very low quantities in milk. We do have some good information about this because it’s so commonly used in like the childbearing sphere. The quote, like best protocol is to take miso after feeding and wait about four hours for the next feed. If you’ve got like a newborn or a baby under three months.

Yeah. Miso can kind of make you feel crappy. Yeah. You know, it can give you a little low grade fever. It can give you the chills. It can give you nausea and vomiting. Oh yeah. It’s a prostaglandin so it like messes with your temperature a little bit sometimes. But basically for baby, it can have symptoms, not unlike antibiotics, right? Some diarrhea, maybe some tummy trouble, but nothing serious. And typically, you know, that’s pretty rare anyway, because it’s not something that you’re gonna be taking long term?

No, it’s pretty small. Like short-lived doses. Yeah. And yeah, like it’s gonna make you feel like crap. It’s really not gonna affect your baby very much. Right. So because miso can make you feel a little bit yucky, you know, and of course this is, it could be an emotional time for you.

It could not be, also fine. You’re not supposed to be anything in this situation. You might wanna factor in those symptoms though, when you’re making your plan for taking this medication at home and ending the pregnancy. So be okay with the fact that you might wanna be alone during this process.

Yeah. And having your breastfeeding baby there with you might be triggering for you, or it might be comforting for you and you’re allowed to change your mind. So yeah, whoever your support team is just let them know to be on call for you for when you do change your mind, if you do change your mind, because we want you to be as comfortable as possible during this process.

It’s absolutely okay to have somebody else bottle feed and you to just pump during that time. There’s no rules for what you’re supposed to do with feeding your current baby through medication induced abortion. Yeah. And, and like this situation that you might find yourself in taking this medication, I mean, across the board feelings about it, right?

Like we have lots of people who feel very happy to be seeking elective abortions. We have people who are dealing with a missed miscarriage taking this medication for very, very wanted pregnancies. I mean, so many different emotions that you could be feeling at this time. All of them are legitimate and okay.

Yeah. Yeah. So get some support and yeah plan for needing support. Yeah. You don’t need to soldier through this one by yourself. No. And there are doulas out there that will support you and midwives who will support you through miscarriage at home. Absolutely. And it, you know, partners are wonderful, but sometimes they don’t say the right things.

They don’t have the right training and they don’t anticipate needs like somebody who has a uterus might or somebody who has had some training. Yeah. Or someone who has been there. I, I really love full spectrum doulas. That’s usually what we call it when they have training kind of in every part of reproduction.

And that typically does include abortion care, but you definitely wanna double check. A lot of doulas do that virtually even so while they might not be able to be there to like, get you a snack and water, you can call them and be like, I don’t know what I’m feeling about this. It’s not what I expected or I don’t feel what I’m expecting physically.

Like they can definitely help. Okay. Let’s talk about the second one. Okay. mifepristone is an L 3 mostly because we have less data, essentially. From what we do know, the transfer into milk is minimal. But we do not believe that breastfeeding needs to be interrupted when you take low doses of this.

And we do have like one kind of solid collection of data from 12 women who were undergoing medication abortions using misoprostol and mifepristone and they provided milk samples for up to five days after that, which is pretty cool. For the two of them who received only 200 milligrams of mifepristone orally, it was undetectable in milk.

For those who received the 600 milligram doses, they could detect it in milk. And the highest levels were about six to nine hours after taking that medication. Yeah. So it’s got a pretty long half-life. Yeah. Which is probably what makes it an L three. Exactly. Pretty much anything that’s got a really long half-life is gonna automatically grouped in L three, because it’s gonna give more exposure time to baby.

Yeah. And we don’t have any relevant reports about infant side effects as of now. So, yeah, I, I feel really good about the safety of those medications especially since they are such a short term intervention, and I hope that you guys can feel kind of confident going into that and still breastfeeding through it.

Yep. Now we do wanna touch on the surgical abortions, otherwise known as D&Cs or D&Es. These are very common postpartum. Yeah. When we have retained placenta. So it’s the same procedure where you have to go up in, through the cervix, into the uterus and scrape out the lining and remove any retained placental parts.

Or in the case of a missed AB or a missed abortion to remove the parts of conception that were retained. We don’t know why this happens. Our bodies just hang onto it sometimes. Usually it’s that placental attachment area that’s just really deep in the lining that’s difficult to come out and it happens, you know.

And sometimes it could take, I’ve seen people that have chosen to wait where it’s been like four weeks, you know? And so in that situation, that’s what they chose to do. And we just did clotting labs every three days and that’s fine. You know, the biggest issue is watching for infection and also clotting so that’s the, that’s the risk and you communicate with your patients about that of course.

But a lot of people just don’t wanna deal with the emotional fallout of waiting constantly for it to happen. Yeah. And it’s absolutely like, you know yourself best and, you know, the way it’s gonna work out best to handle this for you. Right? So this is basically used to complete a miscarriage when other methods do not work or to complete an abortion when it’s past the 10 week mark of gestation.

Yeah. So we usually see with anesthesia here, they’ll use MAC, M-A-C anesthesia or otherwise known as Twilight sleep and it is absolutely fine to breastfeed immediately after. It’s got a pretty short half-life. It’s anesthesia that is meant to be short term that you wake up from. And yeah, basically just the same as like getting your wisdom teeth out.

Yeah. Like go ahead and breastfeed right after. Yeah. And so, and local anesthesia, general anesthesia, any, anything else they might use for that? You can, you can breastfeed as soon as it’s worn off. Yeah. And they’re most likely gonna give you like 800 milligrams of ibuprofen to go with. Also fine. Also fine. Tylenol also fine.

Yeah. Even if you need a couple of opiates, also fine. You know, they probably won’t give you more than probably three days’ worth if they give you any at all. I do wanna mention too, that if we’re looking at something that’s more like a termination for medical reasons and we’re past I think it’s 23 weeks, then it usually looks more like an induction of labor, you know, Pitocin, maybe misoprostol maybe an epidural, all of that, but those are all things that we would use in any labor that needs some augmentation.

So there’s not gonna be any extra safety concerns there. Mm-hmm. And the reason we have to use meso and other cervical ripening agents for induced termination of pregnancy at those, those later on gestation, like the 23 weeks is because your uterus doesn’t actually have Pitocin receptors on them until a little bit later in pregnancy.

So it’s a similar medication that that would be used. And I do wanna let you know that that process can take days sometimes. So if you’re planning to hold off on breastfeeding throughout an induced termination of pregnancy where you’re further along, it’s going to look like an induction of labor, which can take three, four days.

Yeah. Sometimes a little bit longer. So just plan ahead for that with your breast milk. Would definitely bring your breast pump because you might have breast laid plans to breastfeed your baby directly, but then just exhaustion gets to you. Pain gets to you. Emotional, just turmoil gets to you. Yeah. And rightly so.

Plan ahead for all of that. And yeah, if you have an epidural also fine, yeah, to breastfeed with an epidural and sometimes you will get an epidural for an induced termination of pregnancy. Mm-hmm I just also wanna say on a personal note that I have been a nurse for countless induced termination of pregnancies and that I have to say were the times that I felt like the best nurse that I could possibly ever be.

Yeah. I was always the first one to raise my hand for those. I was happy to be there for the families. I will stand in the fire with you all day long, all night long. And if you are out there in nursing school, maybe, and you’re thinking, oh, I could never do that.

You can, you can. Yeah, you can try it one time because I promise you when you go home, you’ll be like, holy shit. That is nursing. Yeah. And I, you know, haven’t had that experience working out of hospital. I did have the privilege of helping somebody who decided to wait until natural labor for a baby that was not compatible with life.

And I did get to support them in a V back at home. And it was the, like one of the most empowering births I’ve ever been to. Mm-hmm and yeah, providers out there, new providers, especially you can do that. And, you know, it’s emotional for everybody and that’s okay. Oh yeah. I cry. Yeah. People are like, how could you not cry?

I’m like, no, I do. I do like, everybody’s crying. Are you kidding? Like yeah, of course. Yeah. It’s, it’s an emotional time. And of course, if the patient is relieved, I’m gonna be relieved too. Yeah. For them. And they still might cry if they’re relieved. I mean, that’s okay. It’s, it’s all fine.

And you know, probably the most memorable moment. One of them, top five, I would say is I was the nurse for an induced termination that day. And it was a 15 year old patient. Oh. And I walked in and of course she’s super nervous. And I introduced myself and she said, oh my God, my mom’s name was Heather and she passed away. I’m pretty sure you’re supposed to be here with me today.

And I was like, oh my gosh. And like the Lord’s work, you know? Yeah. And so she actually pulled me into the bed with her after the baby was born cuz he was not compatible with life. Yeah. And I called my friend and I said, you’re gonna have to do all of the cleanup and probably the charting. I am busy.

Yeah. And so I, I sat in bed with her and I helped her through the grieving process. And, you know, it was probably one of the best moments I’ve ever had as a human being. Mm-hmm. Like to, to be able to be a human being there for somebody else. And, you know, just to tie it back to the beginning, you know, who has not been there?

And gone through that? Anyone making these legislative decisions, right? The politicians who are making choices. Not one, not one of ’em. So I just would love to say, if you are a politician and you happen to listen to this, and you would like to talk to somebody who’s had firsthand experience with, I would say I’ve probably done it at least 40 times.

Yeah. Holler at me. I would love to share some of these stories with you and also, you know, help you help others. Mm-hmm, that’s your job. That’s your actual job. So we are open to all of that and we’re open to your stories as well. So if you would like to share your story, you can email us at

Yeah. And you know, we are just proud of you for first sticking this episode out with us. I know it’s been a little bit of a tough one, but very important one, very important. So, you know, the story of all of this is you can have an abortion and continue to breastfeed the baby that you’re already feeding.

You guys tired of not knowing what to do with the little amounts of haakaa milk and how to store them? Or are you worried about what is going to happen to your milk in the car if your ice packs don’t last? Are you also worried about what you’re doing with all the single use plastics that you’re storing your milk in?

And are you ready for products that are going to last you beyond breastfeeding? I know I am. Me too. And that’s why I use the Ceres Chiller and the Milkstache from Ceres Chill. First of all, it’s a woman owned company, which I love to support and it’s changed the lives of us and our patients. These products are very well made and they are made to last beyond breastfeeding.

Yeah. They’re good looking products that you can use again and again, maybe even for a bottle of wine on the beach. I use my Ceres Chiller every single time I pump out of the house and I never have to worry about having access to a fridge, bringing a cooler, making sure I put my ice packs back in the freezer after I use them.

None of it. It’s a very high quality thermos that keeps your milk cold or warms it up depending on how you wanna use it. So if you would like to get your very own chiller or other products from Ceres Chill, follow the link in our show notes and use code MILKMINUTE15 at checkout for 15%. That’s MILKMINUTE15, for 15% off.

Okay. We are going to give an award today to an organization. Yes. I would love to give an award to the West Virginia Free Organization. West Virginia Free is the state’s leading reproductive health rights and justice organization. And their vision is centered in their respect for people’s lives with the belief that access to reproductive healthcare and education is a fundamental human right.

Yeah. They do tons of work legislatively. Their email game is on point. So from a marketing perspective, I’m always in awe of their reach. And so we just wanna say a big thank you to them and acknowledge the work they do. We will put a link in our show notes and also we are gonna be donating $50 to the West Virginia Free Foundation today.

We would encourage you to find a similar organization in your state, especially if you have a state that is particularly conservative and does not value your choices with your body. Those organizations are really working hard for you right now, and they could appreciate your monetary support.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Well, thank you all for listening to this very important episode of the Milk Minute Podcast. The way we change this big ginormous system that is not set up for lactating families is by educating ourselves, our legislators, our politicians, our teachers, our friends, and our children. And if you appreciate the information that we gave you today or any other day that you’ve listened, please join us on Patreon and support us with your donation of as little as $1 a month.

Every dollar goes to supporting this podcast and everything that goes into it, which is quite a bit, so, yeah. Thank you to all of our current patrons and our future patrons. It could be you. And don’t forget to look at our show notes for links and all kinds of stuff. Yes. Thank you so much, everybody. And we hope you have a fantastic day.

Bye-bye, toodaloo, Hey, byebye, Tudo, Tut, and goodbye. Goodbye.


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